Railroaders' Nostalgia > Burlington Northern Aptitude Test

Found this in a yard office in Kansas the other day, thought someone on here might enjoy the Burlington Northern Problem Solving Aptitude Test. 

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boomer Wrote:
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> Found this in a yard office in Kansas the other
> day, thought someone on here might enjoy the
> Burlington Northern Problem Solving Aptitude
> Test. 

We had a copy of that in the Seattle dispatchers office (as did probably most yard and dispatching office on BN). It says dispatchers - forget it, but in Seattle it was kept with the detailed instructions (written by one of the dispatchers) for how to do a double sawby (train order territory, neither train fits) because so many crews couldn't figure it out (New era management couldn't understand why we would get so upset at trains that didn't fit anywhere).

TAW

TAW I was hoping to see you reply to this, I'd be interested in seeing those detailed instructions.

Hope seeing it brought back good memories for you

Posted from Android

boomer Wrote:
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> TAW I was hoping to see you reply to this, I'd be
> interested in seeing those detailed instructions.
>
>
> Hope seeing it brought back good memories for you
>

Yup. There were some good times in the last years I was there, predominately in making fun of the idiocy we were forced to deal with.

Don't fit and don't fit:

• West man stops in the country far enough for the east man to fit between the east switch and the west man's rear end after he makes the cut.
• East man pulls down to the east switch.
• West man makes a cut and takes the head end however much fits in the siding into the siding to clear the main.
• East man pulls down to tie on to west man's rear end.
• West man's head end leaves the siding and runs out in the country far enough to hold the east man.
• East man pulls the west man's rear end through the siding, cuts it off between switches, and backs out to clear the west switch.
• East man leaves town on the main.
• West man backs down behind the east man and into the siding to get his rear end.
• West man leaves town out of the siding.

Here is a variation that I have used: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2157882,2158165#msg-2158165

Don't try this with a conductor-only train crew and no caboose.

TAW
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/20 09:15 by TAW.

To the time limits column, for my part as a retired hoghead (who never was very good at ground pounding so he decided to go into engineeringmanship): 1 hour
That's the time it took me between 4:30 and 5:30 this morning. Do I get any points for perseverance? Got any more of these posers?
I think I'll go lay down now. (See, I told ya'. It took me 7 minutes to figure out that 6 minus 5 is still only one).
​
Charlie
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/16 10:24 by cewherry.

cewherry Wrote:
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> To the time limits column, for my part as a
> retired hoghead (who never was very good
> at ground pounding so he decided to go into
> engineeringmanship): 1 hour
> That's the time it took me between 4:30 and 6:30
> this morning. Do I get any points for
> perseverance? Got any more of these posers?
> I think I'll go lay down now.

I can think of some train service guys we worked with who would take longer than that...and a couple who probably couldn't figure it out. Actually, I can put a couple of yardmasters in that category.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> boomer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TAW I was hoping to see you reply to this, I'd
> be
> > interested in seeing those detailed
> instructions.
> >
> >
> > Hope seeing it brought back good memories for
> you
> >
>
> Yup. There were some good times in the last years
> I was there, predominately in making fun of the
> idiocy we were forced to deal with.
>
> Don't fit and don't fit:
>
>

• West man stops in the country far enough for
  > the east man to fit between the east switch and
  > the west man's rear end after he makes the cut.
  >
• East man pulls down to the east switch.
  >
• West man makes a cut and takes the head end
  > however much fits in the siding into the siding to
  > clear the main.
  >
• East man pulls down to tie on to west man's
  > rear end.
  >
• West man's head end leaves the siding and runs
  > out in the country far enough to hold the east
  > man.
  >
• East man pulls the west man's head end through
  > the siding, cuts it off between switches, and
  > backs out to clear the west switch.

A typo here: Should read "East man pulls the west man's rear end (portion that west man left behind) through the siding, cuts it off between switches, and backs out to clear the west switch."

• East man leaves town on the main.
  >
• West man backs down behind the east man and
  > into the siding to get his rear end.
  >
• West man leaves town out of the siding.
  >

Best regards,

Rob L.

Ok I can't figure it out how do you solve the above puzzle.
JC

Posted from Android

JasonCNW Wrote:
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> Ok I can't figure it out how do you solve the
> above puzzle.
> JC
>
>
​OK Jason, here goes. As the drawing states, a real help to me was to use the 3 ​different ​ coins.
​I used 16 cents; dime, nickle, penny. I designated the nickle to play the part of the boxcar, dime is the piggyback car and penny is the engine.

​1. Move engine from lower spur to coupling with box car.
​2. Pull box car around right hand loop to coupling the front end of engine to the piggyback car.
​3. Continue shoving/pulling move until box car is clear of switch to upper spur.
​4. Shove box car into the clear on upper spur and leave it there.(Fer'now)
​5. Leave the piggyback car where you first found it. 
​5. Run engine around loop through the tunnel and couple to piggyback car.
6. Shove piggyback car to coupling with box car in upper spur.
​7. Pull box car from spur and place it on right hand loop.
​8. Shove piggyback car into upper spur and leave it there (Fer'now). This is the ​KEY ​part of this exercise. You have just 'made a turn' on these two cars.
​9. Run engine back through tunnel, around loop and couple to box car.
​10. Shove box car until engine is beyond switch points of upper spur (plus the obligatory 50', wouldn't want to be in violation, ye never know who's watchin')
​11. With the box car in-tow, reach into the upper spur and couple to the piggyback car.
12. Pull the piggyback car out of the spur and begin shoving/pulling, using the right side loop until the box car is spotted. Cut-off the box car.
​13. Continue shoving the piggyback car around the right hand loop until you have spotted it
​14. Cut off the engine and place on lower spur. Piece o' cake!

Charlie


 

Leave it to you old heads to figure it out. Good job, Charlie

rob_l Wrote:
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• East man pulls the west man's head end through
  > > the siding, cuts it off between switches, and
  > > backs out to clear the west switch.
  >
  > A typo here: Should read "East man pulls the west
  > man's rear end (portion that west man left behind)
  > through the siding, cuts it off between switches,
  > and backs out to clear the west switch."

Thanks. I can't imagine how I missed that.

TAW

cewherry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JasonCNW Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ok I can't figure it out how do you solve the
> > above puzzle.
> > JC
> >
> >
> ​OK Jason, here goes. As the drawing states, a
> real help to me was to use the 3 ​different ​
> coins.
> ​I used 16 cents; dime, nickle, penny. I
> designated the nickle to play the part of the
> boxcar, dime is the piggyback car and penny is
> the engine.

Train dispatcher work is...well maybe used to be, substantially imaginary visual. I have mentioned figuring time on a clock face. There is also looking at a CTC diagram and moving the lights in your mind along with it. That makes it easy to do this with no props. I bet there are or were old head switchmen who could do it that way too.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I bet there are or were old
> head switchmen who could do it that way too.
>
> TAW

There are lots of young switchmen (and women) that could do that too.

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Train dispatcher work is...well maybe used to be,
> substantially imaginary visual. I have mentioned
> figuring time on a clock face. There is also
> looking at a CTC diagram and moving the lights in
> your mind along with it. That makes it easy to do
> this with no props.

​You see, that's another reason I went for the engineeringmanship-----as a trainman I never came to work with 16 cents in my pocket to use for those "imaginary visual" moves. ;^)
​
On another note, I was once 'conducting' (teaching would be too generous a term) a train order class while assigned at SP's simulator. One of the engineer candidates remarked
​that he would often place his 'flimsies' on the floor of the cab to view them graphically so as to have a clear understanding of their intent.
​Incredulously, I asked him if the cab was moving as he studied them. Yes sir, he replied. I could only encourage him to find a better system.

Charlie

 

glendale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TAW Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I bet there are or were old
> > head switchmen who could do it that way too.
> >
> > TAW
>
> There are lots of young switchmen (and women) that
> could do that too.

Great! I haven't been around any to know that the skill of the profession lives on.

TAW

cewherry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TAW Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Train dispatcher work is...well maybe used to
> be,
> > substantially imaginary visual. I have
> mentioned
> > figuring time on a clock face. There is also
> > looking at a CTC diagram and moving the lights
> in
> > your mind along with it. That makes it easy to
> do
> > this with no props.
>
> ​You see, that's another reason I went for the
> engineeringmanship-----as a trainman I never came
> to work with 16 cents in my pocket to use for
> those "imaginary visual" moves. ;^)
> ​
> On another note, I was once 'conducting' (teaching
> would be too generous a term) a train order
> class while assigned at SP's simulator. One of
> the engineer candidates remarked
> ​that he would often place his 'flimsies' on
> the floor of the cab to view them graphically so
> as to have a clear understanding of their intent.
> ​Incredulously, I asked him if the cab was
> moving as he studied them. Yes sir, he replied. I
> could only encourage him to find a better system.
>

There was an AMTK hoghead long ago who taped them up to the windows and cab walls.

TAW



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/16 14:29 by TAW.

This is actually a pretty good aptitude test because it's real world thinking.  

In the mid 60s some academic geniuses dreamed up a test for aviation called the Stanine Aptitude Test For Aviators which it was not, and including such beauties as which way the throttle grip turns on a Harley Davidson motorcycle.  Many airlines, trying to find a way to identify good applicants began to use the test until late 1967 or so when Eastern Air Lines thought they were turning down some pretty good applicants.  Now in those days Eastern was a pilots airline so the managers of recruitment arranged to give this Stanine test to a group of very senior and very experienced pilots...most of whom flunked it cold!  

That was pretty much the end of the Stanine...