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Date: 06/22/08 14:13
Used locomotive market prices
Author: gmojim

June Railway Age magazine has list of current used locomotive
prices and lease rates. Interesting numbers;

EMD GP-40 3,000hp reasonable well maintained
$165,000 to $225,000
-------------------------------------------
EMD SD-40-2 3,000hp good condition well maintained
$175,000 to $225,000
New remanufactured unit $750,000
Lease $200 - $250 per day
-------------------------------------------------------
EMD SD-60 3,800hp good condition well maintained
$275,000 to $350,000
lease $325 to $375 per day
------------------------------------------------------
GE Dash 8-40CW 4,000hp good condition well maintained
$250,000 to $275,000
Lease $175 to $200 per day
---------------------------------------------------------
GE AC4400CW 4,400hp good condition well maintained
$1,800,000
Lease $500 to $550 per day
----------------------------------------------------------
EMD SD90MAC4300 4,300hp good condition well maintained
$1,500,000
Lease for EMD modified units $400 to $500 per day
------------------------------------------------------------
EMD GP-38-2 2,000hp good condition well maintained
$225,000
Lease $200 per day
-------------------------------------------------------------
EMD GP-38-3 2,000hp good condition well maintained
$350,000
Lease $225 to $250 per day
------------------------------------------------------------
EMD SW1500 1,500hp good condition well maintained
$120,00 to $150,00
Lease $75 to $125 per day
-------------------------------------------------------

gmojim



Date: 06/22/08 14:17
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: MEKoch

Interesting the huge cost difference between a C-40 and C-44.

Some C-40s are now 20 years old.



Date: 06/22/08 14:30
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: pal77

EMD SD-60 3,800hp good condition well maintained
$275,000 to $350,000
lease $325 to $375 per day
------------------------------------------------------
GE Dash 8-40CW 4,000hp good condition well maintained
$250,000 to $275,000
Lease $175 to $200 per day


I find this interesting I wonder what makes the sd60 so much more valuable?



Date: 06/22/08 14:50
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: CCMF

They don't burn as easily.



Date: 06/22/08 14:58
Look at the price for a GP38-3!
Author: Cameraman

My local shortline has been telling me for a couple of years that GP-38s command more than SD-40-2. Look at the price for a GP38-3!



Date: 06/22/08 15:28
Re: Look at the price for a GP38-3!
Author: atsf616

What railroad has retired AC4400CWs?



Date: 06/22/08 15:36
Re: Look at the price for a GP38-3!
Author: kyle

We all know the reputation of the SD-40s as historically being one of, if not the best in the opinions of railroads and engineers, but there will always be a market for dependable 4 axle power for short lines and locals. I know my areas Class 1 must have a 4 axle on the local, because industry track will not handle 6 axle power. This may explain the high cost for good 4 axle power.



Date: 06/22/08 15:53
some one please explane this to me
Author: highhood

if [ cefx ] for example, when they bought thoes ac4400s payed [ just a number ] 1,000,000.00 per unit. and they lease them out at 500.00 per day. that means it takes 2000 days just to make back the cost of the loco. thats almost 6 years and only if they lease it evey day for that almost 6 year period. and then there is the maintnince and any repairs to the unit in that time frame. so when does the lease co realy make money on any unit that they have.



Date: 06/22/08 17:19
Re: some one please explane this to me
Author: Lackawanna484

highhood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if [ cefx ] for example, when they bought thoes
> ac4400s payed [ just a number ] 1,000,000.00 per
> unit. and they lease them out at 500.00 per day.
> that means it takes 2000 days just to make back
> the cost of the loco. thats almost 6 years and
> only if they lease it evey day for that almost 6
> year period. and then there is the maintnince and
> any repairs to the unit in that time frame. so
> when does the lease co realy make money on any
> unit that they have.

The leasing company also has the benefit of depreciation for book value purposes. That lets them write off a portion of the purchase price against taxable income from other investments, etc. In the simplest terms, depreciation lets you subtract 6% to 10% of the purchase price each year to recognize the wear and tear etc on the capital asset. By year 10 or 15, your asset might only have a book value of 10% of its purchase price, even though its resale value might be much higher.

The leasing company likely borrowed money from a bank or insurer or a partnership to purchase the locomotive, so they owe (tax deductible) interest on the loan, as they collect lease income from the railroad.

I'm sure there are people who understand the process better than I do, but the general idea is the leasing company uses borrowed funds to acquire the loco, and passes the income from the leases back to the investors. When the loco is used up for accounting purposes in 15 years, the any profit (sales price minus the accounting book value left) is taxed at a favorable rate.

Most farmers, truckers, airlines, construction firms, and other heavy equipment users have similar financing strategies.



Date: 06/22/08 18:00
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: AmericanLines

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting the huge cost difference between a
> C-40 and C-44.
>
> Some C-40s are now 20 years old.


Don't forget one is a AC unit the other is not. That would explain the cost difference right there.



Date: 06/22/08 19:06
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: REflectiveMAN

I just want to know whose units these are...

I figure CEFX/CITX, as they have all the above except the C40-8W...



Date: 06/22/08 19:23
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: scapegoat

SW 1500 for 120 to 150? They will be gone by now. Older switchers not in good shape are brining more than that. That is a deal on a switcher.



Date: 06/22/08 19:37
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: gmojim

Correction on the SW1500;

EMD SW1500 1,500hp good condition well maintained
$120,000 to $150,000
Lease $75 to $125 per day
------------
I left off zeros when I typed. Could not copy and paste as RA did have some GP's with 6 axles.

gmojim



Date: 06/22/08 19:40
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: EMDSW-1

I don't believe any decent switcher these days can be had for under $200,000; a well-worn rent-a-wreck sitting in a used locomotive junkyard somewhere maybe, but the component values are over $125,000 in most cases. "Well maintained" doesn't mean much. There are several well maintained SW-1500's for sale by the CRANDIC for over $300,000; I know that they are well maintained because I have dealt with them and the CRANDIC has the reputation of beinbg a first class operation.

I have purchased a "nice" SW1200RS (from LTEX)and an immaculate SW-900 (from the CRANDIC) in the past two years and paid $185,000 and $250,000 respecively for quality power. I didn't like the price but the alternative was keep patching and praying.



Date: 06/22/08 21:04
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: SantaFeRuss

Yo,man got them Geep 38-3's fo' 350 G's....got 'em right here. I got what you need. Got them double-ups on C40-8W's. Come check me out............



Date: 06/23/08 07:55
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: abyler

pal77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EMD SD-60 3,800hp good condition well maintained
> $275,000 to $350,000
> lease $325 to $375 per day
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----
> GE Dash 8-40CW 4,000hp good condition well
> maintained
> $250,000 to $275,000
> Lease $175 to $200 per day
>
>
> I find this interesting I wonder what makes the
> sd60 so much more valuable?

Same reason so many GP9's, SD9's, SD40's, GP40's, SD45's, FP45's, GP38's, SD38's, SW's of all types, etc. are all still running and even rostered by Class I's still while the competitor U-boats are long gone. EMD long term reliability has simply been much better.



Date: 06/23/08 08:48
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: pafan

About how much would a GP9 and SD9 go for?

Brent



Date: 06/23/08 11:53
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: filmteknik

How much does a new SD70M go for? If remanufactured SD40-2's (which I presume should have like-new low maintentance costs and reliability) can be had for 750K and a set of 4 for 3M I'm not sure I see the economics behind the 3 for 4 replacement even with the fuel savings.



Date: 06/23/08 11:55
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: nischik

Pal 77 wrote: I find this interesting I wonder what makes the sd60 so much more valuable?

The answer is simple: any EMD locomotive lasts twice as long and a comparable GE engine. It's all in the trade-in value.



Date: 06/23/08 12:27
Re: Used locomotive market prices
Author: pal77

nischik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pal 77 wrote: I find this interesting I wonder
> what makes the sd60 so much more valuable?
>
> The answer is simple: any EMD locomotive lasts
> twice as long and a comparable GE engine. It's all
> in the trade-in value.


I suspected as such given EMD reputation, but I had thought that GE had significantly closed that gap with the Dash 8 series. Makes me wonder how many mechanical dept that opted heavily for GE products in the late 80's early 90's are questioning that decision.



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