Eastern Railroad Discussion > Crazy Coal Train

Last Wednesday @ 2PM.on the West Slope At Cassandra Bridge--
A WB Coal Drag (moving at track speed) comes down around the corner---
with no helpers on the rear, brakes smoking, and then, day turns into night.
The question is, When you witness something like this, do you transmit to the engineer with your scanner
that "WB coal train--traction motors/brakes are smoking" at @ 48 sec.--Well, I did. Also said "lots of coal dust too"
LIsten carefully and you hear "Thank you very much" at @ 58 sec.
Stopped the camera so it wouldn't get too much dust in it.
Enjoy, Doug
PS--Let the video load for a few minutes so you can watch without it stopping!!

The bar should be about 50% loaded before you hit "Play"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/11 19:18 by bert14.

You must be a registered subscriber to watch videos. Join Today!

Hey Doug,

Great Video! What kinda scanner do you have where you can talk to the crew? Anyways, very nice.

- Scott

www.youtube.com/OhioRails


bert14 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Last Wednesday @ 2PM.on the West Slope At
> Cassandra Bridge--
> A WB Coal Drag (moving at track speed) comes down
> around the corner---
> with no helpers on the rear, brakes smoking, and
> then, day turns into night.
> The question is, When you witness something like
> this, do you transmit to the engineer with your
> scanner
> that "WB coal train--traction motors/brakes are
> smoking" at @ 48 sec.--Well, I did. Also said
> "lots of coal dust too"
> LIsten carefully and you hear "Thank you very
> much" at @ 58 sec.
> Stopped the camera so it wouldn't get too much
> dust in it.
> Enjoy, Doug
> PS--Let the video load for a few minutes so you
> can watch without it stopping!!
>
> The bar should be about 50% loaded before you hit
> "Play"

Hey Hey-- an old Yaesu F-60? "Transceiver" It was the first time ever in 4 years that I transmitted.
It has a setting 1 watt, 3 watts, or 5 watts--I was on 1 watt so as not to interfere too much.........
Safety First, I suppose...Doug



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/11 05:43 by bert14.

Interesting. I'll be at the Station Inn July 28-30. It would be nice to meet you. Do you think you will be able to make it while I'm there?


bert14 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Hey-- an old Yaesu F-60? "Receiver" It was the
> first time ever in 4 years that I transmitted.
> It has a setting 1 watt, 3 watts, or 5 watts--I
> was on 1 watt so as not to interfere too
> much.........
> Safety First, I suppose...Doug

are you sure it wasn't sand instead of smoking traction motors?

Is the coal dust cloud off this train typical of all coal trains east coast and west coast?

Out here in the Northwest there is talk of building several coal export facilities along the Columbia River in Washington or at Boardman in Oregon.

The overlying major concern seems to be why are we selling coal to people over seas that we don't want to
use here and will still suffer the consequences of it being used overseas (china)that we would suffer if
we just use the coal here, regardless of how clean of a coal burning plant is used.

The minor concerns are the coal dust issue at the actual transloading site and from the video what could
occur during transport from the mine to the export load site.

So, is this dirtiness typical with all coal trains? Or is this just an oddball that wasn't properly prepared for transit?

ActionMike

Isn't their a FRA rule or fine against railfans contacting a working crew on the radio? I know it isn't allowed in the airline industry. Sounds pretty dangerous if you ask me. One of them could make the crew put the train in emergency for no reason and derail or they could miss a emergency message from the dispatcher.

There sure is.

Just so you know, unauthorized broadcast on a private channel or any broadcast at all with a HAM radio without a license is a federal offense (probably with the FRA and definitely with the FCC) and is just another in a long list of things that makes railfans look very, very bad.

That looked like it could have just as easily been sand as anything. Anything serious on the axle directly under the cab would definitely be noticeable to the crew.

A big thumbs down to you sir, your actions appall me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/11 21:00 by MagnumForce.

This is not good. Actions such as these may make it difficult for people like myself who use Yaesu ham radios as scanners. It is definitely illegal to broadcast to train crews on these things and if I was you I would not mention this anymore as you may get yourself in a heap of trouble along with giving a black eye to the rest of us railfans.

bert14 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Hey-- an old Yaesu F-60? "Receiver" It was the
> first time ever in 4 years that I transmitted.
> It has a setting 1 watt, 3 watts, or 5 watts--I
> was on 1 watt so as not to interfere too
> much.........
> Safety First, I suppose...Doug


Bert14, I understand your actions with contacting the crew about the alleged traction motor issue was honorable, but what you did is ultra-illegal. I would not want you to get in serious trouble. In cases like this, you may want to call the Norfolk Southern emergency phone number and report what ever incident there might be. You give them the lead engine number, train type, direction, time and location. That would keep you out of trouble as well as give the railroad the information needed to handle the situation.

SantaFeRuss

ActionMike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is the coal dust cloud off this train typical of
> all coal trains east coast and west coast?
>
> Out here in the Northwest there is talk of
> building several coal export facilities along the
> Columbia River in Washington or at Boardman in
> Oregon.
>
> The overlying major concern seems to be why are we
> selling coal to people over seas that we don't
> want to
> use here and will still suffer the consequences of
> it being used overseas (china)that we would suffer
> if
> we just use the coal here, regardless of how clean
> of a coal burning plant is used.
>
> The minor concerns are the coal dust issue at the
> actual transloading site and from the video what
> could
> occur during transport from the mine to the export
> load site.
>
> So, is this dirtiness typical with all coal
> trains? Or is this just an oddball that wasn't
> properly prepared for transit?
>
> ActionMike

ActioMike,

In the 7 or 8 years I worked with the transportation of met coal and coke, I have never seen anything
even remotely close to that amount of dust. I was astonished by this video, but the discussion went another direction, rightly so. Our coal always had a fair moisture content that kept dust nonexistent
RichS

I'm not a ham, but my father is, and from what he has told me, if there is a true legitimate emergency, you can transmit on any frequency. That aside, this scenario was not an emergency. Coal dust does not effect train handling, and if it was a traction motor smoking, doesn't an alarm go off in the cab, if a motor is failing? My opinion, good intentions, wrong actions. Norfolk Southerns police and reporting phone number is 1-800-453-2530.

Interesting. I'll be at the Station Inn July 28-30. It would be nice to meet you. Do you think you will be able to make it while I'm there?
Hi Ohio Rails---Maybe later in the fall---Heading Out West for a bit of vacation.



are you sure it wasn't sand instead of smoking traction motors?
No doubt coal dust--I first thought it was traction motor out of the locos, thus the title, but I'm told brake smoke.

So, is this dirtiness typical with all coal trains? Or is this just an oddball that wasn't properly prepared for transit?
It is an odd ball train for sure. Not prepared with (from what I've read) with a latex mixture on top, and no water for moisture content. What does coal cost--$100 a ton money going up in "DUST"


Just so you know, unauthorized broadcast on a private channel or any broadcast at all with a HAM radio without a license is a federal offense (probably with the FRA and definitely with the FCC) and is just another in a long list of things that makes railfans look very, very bad.

That looked like it could have just as easily been sand as anything. Anything serious on the axle directly under the cab would definitely be noticeable to the crew.

A big thumbs down to you sir, your actions appall me.

Brent Kneebush
Defiance, OH

This is not good. Actions such as these may make it difficult for people like myself who use Yaesu ham radios as scanners. It is definitely illegal to broadcast to train crews on these things and if I was you I would not mention this anymore as you may get yourself in a heap of trouble along with giving a black eye to the rest of us railfans.
Bert14, I understand your actions with contacting the crew about the alleged traction motor issue was honorable, but what you did is ultra-illegal. I would not want you to get in serious trouble. In cases like this, you may want to call the Norfolk Southern emergency phone number and report what ever incident there might be. You give them the lead engine number, train type, direction, time and location. That would keep you out of trouble as well as give the railroad the information needed to handle the situation.

SantaFeRuss

I'm not a ham, but my father is, and from what he has told me, if there is a true legitimate emergency, you can transmit on any frequency. That aside, this scenario was not an emergency. Coal dust does not effect train handling, and if it was a traction motor smoking, doesn't an alarm go off in the cab, if a motor is failing? My opinion, good intentions, wrong actions. Norfolk Southerns police and reporting phone number is 1-800-453-2530.

Okay, I will address all of the above---
Brent in Ohio, What if a car was stopped at Carney Crossing Road a few miles east and this train passed at this speed-- and maybe the crossing lights short out from the dust and an EastBound train happens by and hits a car that is hidden in the dark trying to cross after the gates go up---Safety First imo

I am totally aware of the FCC rules (Had First Class License in 80's) --I have had discussions in the past with other railfans because I knew I could transmit The consensus was and is Safety First!!! The engineer said "Thank you very much" not
"How dare you transmit on this channel"--and I knew I was on 1 watt of power, kept the message short.

Lastly, that this was not an emergency--I disagree somewhat--not an emergency YET--close to becoming one if the brakes got so hot and failed...

I have always respected RR property and have done over 30 videos here on TO over the years---do a search--bert14--and like I said, very first time ever to transmit.
Would I do it again YES!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/11 10:52 by bert14.

It's the reason for the transmission that is in question. Traction motor dust and brake shoe smoke aren't a legitimate emergency. Those are both common things on the railroad and if every train with brake shoe smoke got called in, nothing would ever move. The only time I saw someone transmit to a train crew was a WB stack train with a container door open. There could have been materials falling from the container and that would have warranted letting the crew know to fix the problem. It's a matter of judgement on what is an "emergency" and this really wasn't one.

Chris Tokarcik
Morgantown, WV

bert14 rote,
"Lastly, that this was not an emergency--I disagree somewhat--not an emergency YET--close to becoming one if the brakes got so hot and failed...

I have always respected RR property and have done over 30 videos here on TO over the years---do a search--bert14--and like I said, very first time ever to transmit.
Would I do it again YES!"

This was not an emergency at all. The crews of a train are trained to be alert of their train while in operation. The dynamics more than likely were on and the coal dust is "normal" at times when the coal is dry and the crew has to be blind not to notice it. And if the traction motors were burning up, alarms would be heard in the cab. just because you have many videos on TO's does not make you an expert on train handling and if there is a problem other trains will notify them that there may be a problem, let the pros handle the situation. In my opinion, just because you have a scanner that can transmit does not give you the right to do so. Fans that think they know what they are doing, sometimes are wrong. please respect the railroad employees and let them DO their jobs without the interference of armchair railfans.

Or just simply call the 800 # to the NS and report the "emergency" to the desk.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/11 08:11 by Hamler-Henry.

Hamler-Henry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bert14 rote,
> "Lastly, that this was not an emergency--I
> disagree somewhat--not an emergency YET--close to
> becoming one if the brakes got so hot and
> failed...
>
> I have always respected RR property and have done
> over 30 videos here on TO over the years---do a
> search--bert14--and like I said, very first time
> ever to transmit.
> Would I do it again YES!"
>
> This was not an emergency at all. The crews of a
> train are trained to be alert of their train while
> in operation. The dynamics more than likely were
> on and the coal dust is "normal" at times when the
> coal is dry and the crew has to be blind not to
> notice it. And if the traction motors were burning
> up, alarms would be heard in the cab. just
> because you have many videos on TO's does not make
> you an expert on train handling and if there is a
> problem other trains will notify them that there
> may be a problem, let the pros handle the
> situation. In my opinion, just because you have a
> scanner that can transmit does not give you the
> right to do so. Fans that think they know what
> they are doing, sometimes are wrong. please
> respect the railroad employees and let them DO
> their jobs without the interference of armchair
> railfans.

I understand the general sentiment here. While most railfans SHOULD know that this occurrence is nothing out of the ordinary, who are we to question what this person thought they saw? Yeah, I can see the video too and I don't think much of it, but for someone who may not have had alot of time seeing coal trains, I can see where the amount of coal dust might have given them the impression that something was askew. That IS alot of dust, but it's not uncommon.

That said, FCC regulations specifically allow ANY radio operator (licensed or not) to transmit on any band, any channel when they see something perceived as an emergency. The key word here is "perceived"... since the OP gives us indications that he THOUGHT something was out of place, he's protected by the rules. Like it or not.

So those WGRF's who are upset with this guy for calling the crew, should come down off the soap box and understand that there actually are people out there that don't know everything like you guys do. Not every armchair railroader has the NS Police hotline in their cell phone's speed dial... I sure as hell don't.

I am going to work today and will ask the FRA inspector there today to get the rule straight.

zzzrail Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am going to work today and will ask the FRA
> inspector there today to get the rule straight.

The radio rule? This has zero to do with FRA... it's FCC regulations.

hoydie17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hamler-Henry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > bert14 rote,
> > "Lastly, that this was not an emergency--I
> > disagree somewhat--not an emergency YET--close
> to
> > becoming one if the brakes got so hot and
> > failed...
> >
> > I have always respected RR property and have
> done
> > over 30 videos here on TO over the years---do a
> > search--bert14--and like I said, very first
> time
> > ever to transmit.
> > Would I do it again YES!"
> >
> > This was not an emergency at all. The crews of
> a
> > train are trained to be alert of their train
> while
> > in operation. The dynamics more than likely
> were
> > on and the coal dust is "normal" at times when
> the
> > coal is dry and the crew has to be blind not to
> > notice it. And if the traction motors were
> burning
> > up, alarms would be heard in the cab. just
> > because you have many videos on TO's does not
> make
> > you an expert on train handling and if there is
> a
> > problem other trains will notify them that
> there
> > may be a problem, let the pros handle the
> > situation. In my opinion, just because you have
> a
> > scanner that can transmit does not give you the
> > right to do so. Fans that think they know what
> > they are doing, sometimes are wrong. please
> > respect the railroad employees and let them DO
> > their jobs without the interference of armchair
> > railfans.
>
> I understand the general sentiment here. While
> most railfans SHOULD know that this occurrence is
> nothing out of the ordinary, who are we to
> question what this person thought they saw? Yeah,
> I can see the video too and I don't think much of
> it, but for someone who may not have had alot of
> time seeing coal trains, I can see where the
> amount of coal dust might have given them the
> impression that something was askew. That IS alot
> of dust, but it's not uncommon.
>
> That said, FCC regulations specifically allow ANY
> radio operator (licensed or not) to transmit on
> any band, any channel when they see something
> perceived as an emergency. The key word here is
> "perceived"... since the OP gives us indications
> that he THOUGHT something was out of place, he's
> protected by the rules. Like it or not.
>
> So those WGRF's who are upset with this guy for
> calling the crew, should come down off the soap
> box and understand that there actually are people
> out there that don't know everything like you guys
> do. Not every armchair railroader has the NS
> Police hotline in their cell phone's speed dial...
> I sure as hell don't.


Those 800 #'s are posted at grade crossings just for this reason for the "perceived" emergency situations. And, If someone is not sure of what they have seen, don't notify the crew with your "scanner" call the number and let the dispatcher notify the train crew of what you, the railfan has seen that does not look right and let the railroad handle it. I'm not an expert on everything railroading but after 42 years of railfanning I know when something is not right and I'll call it in to report it, it has to be something serious for me to do that which only has happened on two occasions with dragging equipment before the use of defect detectors in the area the train was running. Please just be careful of what you do because it represents all of the railfan community.

Attached you will find a typical hopper train with coal dust flying out of the hoppers. I have seen worse over the years but, this is most often the case when I have seen dust.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/11 10:16 by Hamler-Henry.

---

---

---