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Date: 10/26/00 17:32
Railroad Retirement Reform down the tube
Author: rrguy

Railroad Retirement reform
killed by Republican leadership

Your union will not tell you how to vote on Tuesday, November 7, but we want to provide you with all of the information so that you can make your own decision. Given the choice of voting with you and the widows and widowers, or using your money for a tax cut for the privileged, the Republican leadership made their choice. Now it is your turn.

After 10 months of hard work, a handful of conservative Republicans, primarily Senators Phil Gramm (R-Tex.), Assistant Majority Whip Don Nickles (R-Okla.) and Pete Domenici (R-N.M.), have ignored the pleas of Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) and killed Railroad Retirement for this session.

Almost 40 Republican senators had indicated support of these improvements. But given a choice of standing with the more than 50,000 widows and widowers who need additional benefits and the many thousands of railroaders who are looking forward to a well-deserved early retirement, the Republican Caucus stood with these three senators. It is my understanding that Sen. Gramm is very proud of his position. He said, in effect, that killing this legislation was something that the Republican senators should be able to campaign on. In addition, we are told that some Republican senators did not want to pass this legislation because they wanted to "leave the money on the table" so it could be credited for a possible George W. Bush tax cut, if he is elected President.

When you enter the voting booth on November 7, do not forget that the Republican leadership killed H.R. 4844. If those in Congress ignore hundreds of thousands of working men and women our best solution is to vote for UTU endorsed candidates.



Date: 10/26/00 17:39
RE: Railroad Retirement Reform down the tube
Author: Throttle_JCKY

Ah, just so nice, to throw that propaganda crap out there. Stop listening to the Unions. Both the BLE and UTU have screwed us railroaders and saw to it that we can't get 60/30.! Fact of the matter is, point blank, There were other worthless bills inside that one, which made for it to be thrown out.

It is your choice on who you vote, but be damn skippy, Gore will see to it that all the eastern coal mines are shut down with his so called "pollution reform"..

People need to vote how they feel, not off a piece of propoganda crap.



Date: 10/26/00 18:11
No plans to retire, so no problem
Author: thatlldo

rrguy wrote:
>
>
> Your union will not tell you how to vote on Tuesday, November
> 7, but we want to provide you with all of the information so
> that you can make your own decision. Given the choice of voting
> with you and the widows and widowers, or using your money for a
> tax cut for the privileged, the Republican leadership made
> their choice. Now it is your turn.
>
>

Right, neither you nor my union will not tell me how to vote. Sorry, but this was a "sorry" piece of legislation.

Besides, I like my job and plan to keep working - probably until I am past 65. A day switch engine is a nice place to spend 8 hours.



Date: 10/26/00 18:26
RE: Railroad Retirement Reform down the tube
Author: Sirsonic

Seems to be pretty typical Republican politics. Ive got mine so to hell with you. For all the crap you say was in there, dont forget about your widows folks. They would have gotten your full pension if you died, but due to the Republican Party, and their desire to cater to the rich, they will not. If you dont like your union, than become a union officer and change things. Its easy to sit around and whine, its another thing entirely to actually change things. Oh well, if you want to work until your 65, or like me, until your 67, vote for the party that doesnt give a good God damn about you. If you care about your fellow railroaders, than vote Democratic.



Date: 10/26/00 19:01
It's not killed!!
Author: bessemerlakeerie

The bill has been tabled until the next session of congress when President BUSH will sign it into law without all the useless riders attached. Clinton probably would've vetoed it because it is a Republican authored Bill. Just like CLinton's veto of the marriage tax repeal. VOTE BUSH!!



Date: 10/26/00 19:24
RE: Railroad Retirement Reform down the tube
Author: Throttle_JCKY

Sorry boys, I aint here to tell you all how to vote (cause you will do how you please.) but remember this. Clinton did everything in his power to do away with RR funding, everything he could to slide our RRB into SS. You might think Gore is better, that is fine, your opinion, but remember NAFTA..! Ring a Bell.



Date: 10/26/00 19:32
RE: Railroad Retirement Reform down the tube
Author: diddle_e._squat

So 40 Republican Senators were going to vote for it, 3 Rep. Senators maneuvered it out for this session, so therefore vote against all Republicans? A little bit of simplistic thinking that actually was a setup for a diatribe. Yeah right, Republicans want to harass widows, take away granny's social security, poison children, etc. Give me a break. You wanna talk about tabling solutions for politics, how about Clinton throwing away the recommendations of the bipartisan commissions on Social Security and Medicare, saying he would let the next president form another committee to find a solution. 3 years work ignored, so that the Dems can once again use scare tactics to mislead voters. Why solve an issue when you win votes each election by scaring the voters on these issues?

Shame, shame, shame.



Date: 10/26/00 19:42
RE: Railroad Retirement Reform down the tube
Author: Plantman

Hey Throttle Jocky,

Uh NAFTA, if you are paying attention, has brought an incredible volume of rail traffic into the country. Just check out the amount of stuff CN and CP bring into the US through the DW&P gateway, Detroit, and the Buffalo areas. Don't forget TFM-KCS and UP-Ferromex. The container and freight traffic going through these gateways is immeasurable higher than ten years ago and prosperity is flowing forth from them. NAFTA is providing wealth not only to the US and it's two bordering countries, but helping the railroads do better business. This bill was killed by moronic Republican Senators. I am a politics minor in college, and believe me Phil Gramm(more his policies than personality) is at the bottom of the gutter.

As for Gore and the shutdown of coal mines in the east, it doesn't matter. The clean air act will go into effect in the year 2004 and the high-sulfur coal mined in West Virginia, Southern Illinois/Indiana, Kentucky, etc... will not meet the standards. The power plants will not purchase the stuff, or else they'll have to close. And try to think on a larger scale. The coal mined in these areas is slowly ruining our quality of air and the landscape of those regions. So if you want to live in choking air with nasty pollution, scarred landscapes and other bad things, then vote for Bush. Texas is 49th in the country for air quality and could care less what the effects of pollution are. But oh, he's so compassionate.

Off my soapbox.



Date: 10/26/00 19:56
More Info
Author: Plantman

The Railroad Retirement & Survivors Improvement Act of 2000, H.R. 844, will not become law this year as the Senate will not vote on it before adjourning for the fall.

Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-MS), with the backing of three
ultra-conservative Senators, will not attach 4844 to any bill. However, in an act of support for the nation's rail carriers, Lott is attaching the 4.3 cent diesel fuel tax repeal measure to a separate tax bill, H.R. 2614.

Senators Pete Domenici (R-NM), Phil Gramm (R-TX) and Don Nickles (R-OK) successfully convinced Senator Lott to hold the bill from consideration by the full Senate.
Their opposition was based on two factors. One was a desire by ultra-conservative legislators to completely privatize the Railroad
Retirement system as a prelude to a plan to privatize Social Security.
The second concerns the fact that -- under the federal government's
unitary budget scoring system -- transfers of Railroad Retirement funds from the U.S. Treasury to the new Railroad Retirement Trust Fund could be scored as a reduction in assets on the federal books.
Sources say that Gramm, reportedly being considered as Secretary of the Treasury if George W. Bush is elected, wants to score those assets to offset tax cuts promoted by Bush's campaign.

H.R. 4844 would have reduced the vesting requirement under the Railroad Retirement system from 10 years to five, eliminated the actuarial reduction for those who retire prior to age 62, increased surviving spouses' annuities, and eliminated the Railroad Retirement maximum. The bill, which was passed by the House of Representatives by a 391-25 margin, had 83 Senate co-sponsors.



Date: 10/26/00 20:03
RE: Railroad Retirement Reform down the tube
Author: rrguy

Now listen you morons, I put that story up cause that's the way it came over the net on one of the union websites. I wasn't advocating anything, just thought some of you with a few brains might like to read how we got screwed today, no matter who did it. They're all to blame, Congress, companys, unions, ourselves, everyone. Now we'll have to work a few years longer. So while the media is kissing police, fire fighters, teachers and the like, asses, we'll risk our lives every day and get no recognition for it cause they think we're greedy SOBs but they never wonder where they get their stuff from.diddle_e._squat wrote:
>
> So 40 Republican Senators were going to vote for it, 3 Rep.
> Senators maneuvered it out for this session, so therefore vote
> against all Republicans? A little bit of simplistic thinking
> that actually was a setup for a diatribe. Yeah right,
> Republicans want to harass widows, take away granny's social
> security, poison children, etc. Give me a break. You wanna
> talk about tabling solutions for politics, how about Clinton
> throwing away the recommendations of the bipartisan commissions
> on Social Security and Medicare, saying he would let the next
> president form another committee to find a solution. 3 years
> work ignored, so that the Dems can once again use scare tactics
> to mislead voters. Why solve an issue when you win votes each
> election by scaring the voters on these issues?
>
> Shame, shame, shame.



Date: 10/26/00 20:08
RE: More Info
Author: BobE

I have no thoughts on HR whatever the number was. See, no thoughts at all.

Just wanted to pass along some additional color, in particular to the nuggets that youthfully enthusiastic Plantman has given us.

Texas has poor air quality for a couple of reasons. One is that it is hot as blazes down there, so ozone is a chronic summer problem, something that should be familiar to us Ohio residents! The other is that there is a tremendous amount of heavy industry, particularly chemicals, plastics and oil refining. Odds are very good that the gasoline you bought today was refined there, and that the plastic casing that houses your computer started out as ethylene pellets in Texas. It is easy to have good air quality when you have no population, no heat, and no business, like in say, Alaska or Montana. Or you could do it the California way and chase all the business out of state, but then you would have no electricity, and they have nothing but Democrats in state office and the governor's mansion. ;)
As to Sen. Gramm's policies, he is head of the Banking Committee, which reformed a law known as Glass-Steagal that prohibited financial institutions from crossing certain lines i.e. banks could not underwrite securities or insurance but insurers and securities firms could make loans. It was an anachronistic law passed in 1934 and obsolete by 1950. His predecessor on the Committee, the scumbag Al D'Amato stalled that legislation for years to shake down financial companies for more donations. For getting Glass-Steagal reformed, Sen. Gramm scores very high on my list.

As to budgetary counting shenanigans, welcome to Washington children. It is always that way. They're going to fight about something, you just happened to get caught in the web this time! Besides, beware legislation passed right before an election...there's usually something wrong with it when politicians are desperate to claim some sort of victory to the voters. (Not that HR whatever is a bad bill necessarily, I don't really know, I'm just not the trusting type when it comes to politicians for some reason).

my $0.02, depreciated because they spent the first 15 years in Canada
BobE



Date: 10/26/00 20:12
Oops, forgot
Author: BobE

Don't forget that the first President Bush negotiated NAFTA and Clinton got it passed. For my money, it is a great bill. Perhaps the most important reason is that we need to raise living standards for folks in Mexico so they will stay there and stop swimming over to here. (And yes, I am an immigrant myself)

BobE



Date: 10/26/00 21:02
RE: P029 engineer sends out warning
Author: roadrat

The engineer on Amtrak P029 (westbound Capitol Limited), was heard on the radio as he was going through Meyersdale,Pa.

"Any railroader who votes Republican should be shot"

10/26/00

Roadrat



Date: 10/26/00 22:22
Bring it on, gutless wonders!
Author: diddle_e._squat

Yeah, I'm a railroader who's voting Republican(well, at least for Bush), and all the knee-jerk rhetoric and simple-mindedness just turns me more in that direction. Yes, I wanted 60/30 passed, look forward to getting out at 60 myself(though that is many years down the road for me). Yes, I am VERY disappointed that it didn't pass, and the way it was shelved. But this election is about more than single issues, and lets face it, most people don't get to retire at 62. 60/30 is a luxury most people will never see, always good to keep things in perspective. Lets keep the pressure up, and 60/30 will be passed next year, regardless of which party wins. Look at the preliminary vote counts, overwhelming support.

As for the unions, well, I'm sitting here still without a UTU contract.

Funny, if Texas is so polluted, its education so bad, everyone is so suffering hate crimes, and so many of its elderly are dying, then why is Bush polling 70% support in Texas, while Gore is behind in Tennessee? Seems like the local folks might know them the best. Bush got 72% of the vote when he ran for reelection, kinda far fetch to think that that many Texans got suckered. And if Bush is so partisan, then explain why Bush has been endorsed by several prominent Texas Democrats, who stated that he was a bipartisan gov. in practice? In particular the late Bob Bullock, who served and died a Dem., as Speaker of the Texas House of Reps. was the most powerful politician in Texas for 2 decades. He endorsed Bush for gov. and said if he ran for pres. he would endorse him again. The equivalent of if Tip O'Neall had endorsed Reagan. Are you saying Texas Democrats are also for polluting the environment, killing the elderly, etc.?

Oh by the way, I know for a fact that Texas has a hate crimes law. I had a friend beaten into a coma in a movie theater by a gang of punks who had just run through the theater shouting racial slurs, and cornered him in the hallway. Kicked and beaten into a coma because of his color. This happened on a January 1st several years ago, the first day the hate crimes law had taken effect. The local prosecutor originally filed it as the state's first hate crimes prosecution, but several days later dropped the hate crimes portion after much loud and heated protest by the NAACP. You see, my friend was white, and the gang black. So now that the NAACP is running ads implying that Bush is racist because he wouldn't sign additional duplicitous hate crimes laws, well, they have about zero credibility with me.

Finally, Bush's voucher plan would benefit a greater percentage of blacks than any other ethnic group, including whites. Pretty inept bigot if he is a bigot, wouldn't you say?



Date: 10/26/00 22:31
RE: Railroad Retirement Reform down the tube
Author: LWA

Plantman wrote:
>
> I am a politics
> minor in college,

A most impressive credential.

Everyone knows a woolly-headed college professor has never attempted to slant what he or she professes.

If you want the truth, you can rest assured you will get it from a college professor. Yep, they have had a lot of experience in meeting a payroll. They know the truth. Why, some are so smart they can even poor urine out of a boot - provided your print the directions on the heel.



Date: 10/26/00 22:36
RE: Nafta
Author: CSX_CO

I can still remember the Gore-Perrot debate on CNN about this.

Gore said it will bring forgien exports. (what the hell do they have in Mexico that I could possibly want?)

Perrot said all our jobs will go to Mexico.

They were both right. As soon as NAFTA was passed, most of our jobs left here for mexico where the can pay them nothing to do the same stuff we did up here. I know because I almost had to move to Mexico cause they were opening up a new Automotive Assembly Plant down there, and my Dad was almost sent to Supervise it. Meanwhile they were cutting jobs up here.

Oh yeah, we are getting Mexican exports into this counrty...the flood of illegal immigrants is still continuing. No wonder well-fare and SS are so taxed, we have more people siphoning off of it then are actually paying into it.

Yeah...we get stuff in from canada, but how much of it goes straight on into Mexico? I would guess most of it. Seems I remember KCS and CN making a deal to run Intermodal between Canada and Mexico.

You all can say what you want, but I'm voting Bush. I can't trust Gore. Why? He's a buddy of Clinton, and be damned if I trust that lying SOB.

All the democrates think the whole impechment was about Sex. It wasn't...it was about lying under oath, it just happened to be about Sex. Try and tell them this, and they merely say "Your Republican."

That may be so, but if I tried that BS I would be sitting in jail right now, and them too. I still think he had Vince Foster murdered, as he was going to blow the lid off of all of this back in the early days of the Clinton Regeime.

Take care
be safe



Date: 10/27/00 03:47
RE: Railroad Retirement Reform down the tube
Author: jukeman

>>It is your choice on who you vote, but be damn skippy,
Gore will see to it that all the eastern coal mines are
shut down with his so called "pollution reform"..

And that the only thing you can drive has batteries
in the trunk.

And that the only thing you can protect yourself
and your family with is a slingshot.

Ect. Ect. Ect.



Date: 10/27/00 06:02
RE: Railroad Retirement Reform down the tube
Author: Plantman

Alright LWA, you old crusty bastard, where are you? I'll pour a bootful of urine on ya! I put that in there because I didn't understand the method they used to halt the legislation. I know that you need experience and that a lot of college grads don't understand the system.



Date: 10/27/00 10:55
RE: Bring it on, gutless wonders!
Author: shifter

I am 1 railroader who is going to vote republican. why?
well...it doesnt have anything to do with railroading,
there are many things more important than railroading
or any other job. Life, Freedom, Morality,..thats 3 things
just off the top of my head that hold more dear than any
job.



Date: 10/27/00 11:42
RE: Bring it on, gutless wonders!
Author: Throttle_JCKY

Hey guys, I think all of us railroaders can see this coming.!
After years of hearing Demo this Demo that, we are finally seeing the light.! Yes NAFTA was good to railroads in a small percentage, but it hurt all of our non railroad buddies out there. Sending their $17.00 to $25.00 per hour jobs to Mexico.! I am a railroader who is voting Republican, why, well because I have watch Clinton and Gore throw things away, lie and so on.!
The unions are still trying to use the Staggers Act to throw us from the Republican ranks, well it aint working.! I have had more coworkers tell me, "I am voting republican" then I have demo's out there.! Were I live we are highly Democate in nature, but the tide has turned.!
This is what makes this country so great, being able to fuss and fight over these things.!
I have remembered something my grandfather told me many years ago.!
"The president of today is living off of what the president did before him!" So Regan and Bush did it good, and Clinton is going off of what they did "MAKING OUR ECONOMY STRONG".!



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