Eastern Railroad Discussion > The race is on

A NJ Transit ALP-45DM races past a CSX trash train this afternoon on NJ Transit's Raritan Valley line trying to escape the smell.
Trackage is Conrail Shared Assets, former Lehigh Valley at Hillside, NJ. As usual, gloomy weather afforded many trains.

rfprr

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That ALP may not smell bad but, to my eyes and likes, it has to one of the ugliest locomotives ever designed.

Saddest part is that basically all the new passenger power today is not much prettier. As I have said before, it is as if todays industrial designers all skipped class on the day STYLE was covered in the engineering school.

Jay

Nice catch

garr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That ALP may not smell bad but, to my eyes and
> likes, it has to one of the ugliest locomotives
> ever designed.
>
> Saddest part is that basically all the new
> passenger power today is not much prettier. As I
> have said before, it is as if todays industrial
> designers all skipped class on the day STYLE was
> covered in the engineering school.
>
> Jay

No question about it. Ever since the P42's came out....

That's a tack-sharp picture...thanks for sharing...
I happen to like the style. Remember, what "style" is is very dependent upon the intended viewer and creator. Most average citizens who use public transit like this think the "F unit bulldog nose" style we hold so dear is more in line with Roadrunner and Wile E. Coyote cartoons and the history books. North America is a design-based society, and those industries that have recognized this have been very profitable. Think of Starbucks, Target, Netflix, and Apple, just to name a few. These companies have recognized the value of good design, made it its focus and core value… and the rest is history. We, as railfans may not enjoy that fact...but then I'm betting that there were those a century ago who lamented the Lowey and Dreyfuss designed steam engines and even our beloved "F" units as "ugly despicable designs"
Attached is a picture of NJ Transit's former Chief of Design, Cesar Vergara. He now has his own design group, and is very well respected everywhere but INSIDE our community, for some reason. In the grand tradition of legendary railway industrial designers like Raymond Loewy, Henry Dreyfuss, Otto Kuhler, and Paul Philippe Cret, has been contributing his designs to this industry for the better part of 30 years. Among his more notable designs are Amtrak’s Genesis locomotive (Which he had stated he was trying to channel the look of a Baldwin "Shark" within the modern design constraints) and Cascades Talgo train, NJ Transit’s PL42AC locomotive, and Metro-North’s new M8 cars. Remember the Amtrak/US Postal Service "Celebrate the Century" special train? He designed that paint scheme. Also, he designed the General Motors Cadillac STS from the mid 2000's..You can see the "Family" resemblance in the angular design. I know I'm in the minority, but I dig the modern style. F units are great, to be sure...but they're dated. Let's leave them for the quaint transportation museums.
feel free to learn about his modern designs here:
http://vergarastudio.com/



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/14 08:42 by DrLoco.

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And as usual, the crew is right there in a front as front can be--not much protection.

I visited the page, Doc. Thanks for the link. To me, modern design is nice, as long as locomotives taper in from the sides at the front, and come to a bit of a point.

I think the GP60M widebody is sublime, esp. in warbonnet or Maersk colors, as are the SD70Ms and SD70MACs before the rear end got elongated. The F59PHi is sweet in any color.

Some of the new overseas bullet trains are strictly off the hook bad ass, with their hot rod styling.

The ubiquitous GE freight engine comes close, but needs a bit more taper up front. EMD SD70ACe's are ugly beyond repair, although the UP and CP colors mitigate their ugliness just slightly.

DrLoco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a tack-sharp picture...thanks for
> sharing...
> I happen to like the style. Remember, what "style"
> is is very dependent upon the intended viewer and
> creator. Most average citizens who use public
> transit like this think the "F unit bulldog nose"
> style we hold so dear is more in line with
> Roadrunner and Wile E. Coyote cartoons and the
> history books. North America is a design-based
> society, and those industries that have recognized
> this have been very profitable. Think of
> Starbucks, Target, Netflix, and Apple, just to
> name a few. These companies have recognized the
> value of good design, made it its focus and core
> value… and the rest is history. We, as railfans
> may not enjoy that fact...but then I'm betting
> that there were those a century ago who lamented
> the Lowey and Dreyfuss designed steam engines and
> even our beloved "F" units as "ugly despicable
> designs"
> Attached is a picture of NJ Transit's former Chief
> of Design, Cesar Vergara. He now has his own
> design group, and is very well respected
> everywhere but INSIDE our community, for some
> reason. In the grand tradition of legendary
> railway industrial designers like Raymond Loewy,
> Henry Dreyfuss, Otto Kuhler, and Paul Philippe
> Cret, has been contributing his designs to this
> industry for the better part of 30 years. Among
> his more notable designs are Amtrak’s Genesis
> locomotive (Which he had stated he was trying to
> channel the look of a Baldwin "Shark" within the
> modern design constraints) and Cascades Talgo
> train, NJ Transit’s PL42AC locomotive, and
> Metro-North’s new M8 cars. Remember the
> Amtrak/US Postal Service "Celebrate the Century"
> special train? He designed that paint scheme.
> Also, he designed the General Motors Cadillac STS
> from the mid 2000's..You can see the "Family"
> resemblance in the angular design. I know I'm in
> the minority, but I dig the modern style. F units
> are great, to be sure...but they're dated. Let's
> leave them for the quaint transportation museums.
> feel free to learn about his modern designs
> here:
>

I am very aware of Mr. Vergara and his designs. None are to my liking as I prefer for somebody who creates style to come up with something that looks better than the box it could have been delivered in. I know if I were in charge of hiring someone to create a locomotive design I would be sorely disappointed in the "effort" that resulted from any of his work. I mean how hard is it to basically slice a 45 degree angle off two sides of a rectangular box?

As far as visibility for the engine crew, nearly half their line of sight is lost due to his angular designs. That was one of the big complaints when the GE's first came on line.

As for the Amtrak Genesis, P40, P42, or AMD103, the only resemblance to a Baldwin Sharknose would be if the locomotive was turned upside down.

For results such as his, why are taxpayers funding a designer anyway?

Jay

NYC6001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I visited the page, Doc. Thanks for the link. To
> me, modern design is nice, as long as locomotives
> taper in from the sides at the front, and come to
> a bit of a point.
>
> I think the GP60M widebody is sublime, esp. in
> warbonnet or Maersk colors, as are the SD70Ms and
> SD70MACs before the rear end got elongated. The
> F59PHi is sweet in any color.
>
> Some of the new overseas bullet trains are
> strictly off the hook bad ass, with their hot rod
> styling.
>
> The ubiquitous GE freight engine comes close, but
> needs a bit more taper up front. EMD SD70ACe's are
> ugly beyond repair, although the UP and CP colors
> mitigate their ugliness just slightly.

I agree with your statements on all the locomotives and trains you mentioned here except the SD70ACe's which I have never liked as much as the first two-window GM wide(nose)cabs but find OK in brutish terms. The GE freight locos do not bother me at all other than the sheer number of them on the rails today, takes most of the surprise element out of the trackside experience.

It is just something about the rectangle with the sliced of edges that is the epitome of Vergara's design that is not at all attractive to me. To me, it is basic design that any elementary school kid with paper and crayons could come up with.

Jay