Eastern Railroad Discussion > NS Using The Former PRR To/From Tolleston ???

are NS trains still being routed via the old Ft Wayne Main on a steady basis to relieve traffic on the former NYC Main ...

Posted from Android

I wouldn't call it steady, but there are still reports of trains going that way.

I've seen 19A a couple of times on the Chicago Line in the past few days, though. That one had run via Ft Wayne on a few occasions.

The seem to have flipped directions. 16E is the popular train to use the ex PRR now.

Posted from iPhone

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
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> are NS trains still being routed via the old Ft
> Wayne Main on a steady basis to relieve traffic on
> the former NYC Main ...

Still being routed? They've just now begun to do that. A CFE press release from a few days ago stated that NS will run six EB trains between Tolleston and Crestline, OH. They will be unit trains, meaning oil, grain, etc. but mostly oil. NS is upgrading track in several places for 40 mph speeds.

Beyond Crestline, the trains will proceed on NS thru Alliance to Conway and points east.

Three ways into Chicago from the east!! Must be nice to have smart management around the top!

How many miles of the Fort Wayne line is closed down west of Tolleston ?

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> How many miles of the Fort Wayne line is closed
> down west of Tolleston ?

5 miles give or take. However by end of year it will be back open. A deal was made with Gary Airport and NS/CSX to rebuild all the connections.

See this for the STB filings that include a map: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,3624599



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/15 13:05 by howeld.

I am not suggesting it, but it would be physically possible for Amtrak to run from Pittsburgh into Hammond and Chicago that way as they used to ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/15 13:45 by joemvcnj.

The CF&E main line is single track from Tolleston to Crestline that's about 253 miles there are 6 siding between Tolleston and Fort Wayne and 3 of them
are very short under 4000 feet and Between Fort Wayne and Crestline there are 4 sidings.
So there is 10 sidings in 253 miles and some double track in Fort Wayne and several of these siding are used for online Industry so meeting trains on this
line would be very interesting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/15 14:10 by dpc37.

howeld Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How many miles of the Fort Wayne line is closed
> > down west of Tolleston ?
>
> 5 miles give or take. However by end of year it
> will be back open. A deal was made with Gary
> Airport and NS/CSX to rebuild all the
> connections.

No sorry, except for a brief stretch just west of Tolleston, the line will be completely abandoned as part of the Gary Airport expansion. Construction is underway now for routing WB movements from PRR to the parallel ex-Wabash Sugar Track.

calumet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> howeld Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > joemvcnj Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > How many miles of the Fort Wayne line is
> closed
> > > down west of Tolleston ?
> >
> > 5 miles give or take. However by end of year
> it
> > will be back open. A deal was made with Gary
> > Airport and NS/CSX to rebuild all the
> > connections.
>
> No sorry, except for a brief stretch just west of
> Tolleston, the line will be completely abandoned
> as part of the Gary Airport expansion.
> Construction is underway now for routing WB
> movements from PRR to the parallel ex-Wabash Sugar
> Track.

Read the STB report. Yes the historic alignment of the PRR is being abandoned but connections are being replaced to allow movements from NS Chicago line at CP 501 to the Ft Wayne Line east of Tolleston.

The following are the improvements to allow these movements:
RECONFIGURE NS CONNECTION FROM CP 501 TO CLARKE JCT. - I.A.4 - CSXT FORT WAYNE LINE IMPROVEMENTS
CONSTRUCT CROSSOVERS ON CSX AT CLARKE JCT. - l.A.3 - CSXT CLARKE JCT. CONNECTIONS
UPGRADE NS GARY BRANCH - I.A.4 - CSXT FORT WAYNE LINE IMPROVEMENTS
CONSTRUCT NEW EJ&E/CN OVERHEAD BRIDGE - l.A.2 - EJ&E BRIDGES
CONSTRUCT NEW ALIGNMENT BETWEEN NS GARY BRANCH AND CSX FORT WAYNE LINE- l.A.4 - CSXT FORT WAYNE LINE IMPROVEMENTS
REHABILITATE CSX FORT WAYNE LINE- I.A.4 - CSXT FORT WAYNE LINE I MPROVEMENTS
INSTALL DIAMOND. CONSTRUCT CONNECTION TRACK IN NORTHEAST QUADRANT

are there there any maps to indicate the changes that i can reference ... i read the changes but can't put it together in my mind as a sighted routing without being familiar with all the routes

Posted from Android

In a nutshell, the way I understand it, the entire former PFW&C (PRR) line will be intact btw Tolleston and Crestline except a short section near the Gary Airport where the trains will run on former Wabash track but then right back on the former PRR track. The Wabash track east of the Airport will go away except for that track right at the Indiana Sugars plant but served from the CSX Porter Branch. Am I correct?

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com

I fully expected this would become a "directional running" type line. I thought it would be westbound, not eastbound, but if running oil loads that way allows them to bypass Chicago, that's probably politically smart, although there better not be any track-related derailments. Empty trains would make a lot less of a mess if they hit the dirt.

Running Amtrak would be possible, but not plausible. The short sidings notwithstanding, it would be a huge cost to restore a signal system and I imagine the track upgrade goal is 40 mph, not 79. Plus, any train you reroute that way is going to lose Cleveland, Toledo, and South Bend stops in favor of Fort Wayne and.... really, not much else.

From the STB report.

---

howeld Wrote:
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> From the STB report.


That's an excellent map, thanks for highlighting it

31k ran the PRR Westbound this evening from "Sand" in Fort Wayne to CN crossing in Valparaiso. 16E ran the NKP at least to Fort Wayne today due to a dead CF&E train tied down just east of Tolleston.

Ryan

Posted from iPhone

Where is the diamond in item F going Clarke or Tolleston? My map gets blurry when I expand it.

espeefan Wrote:
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> Where is the diamond in item F going Clarke or
> Tolleston? My map gets blurry when I expand it.

Tolleston. Clark is going to be crossovers.

Also of note is NS is gaining or already has trackage rights west on CSX from Clark Jct to Barr Yard. NS is gaining a lot of options for entering and exiting Chicago.

Posted from iPhone

> >
> > > -----
> > > > How many miles of the Fort Wayne line is
> > closed
> > > > down west of Tolleston ?
> > >
> > > 5 miles give or take. However by end of year
> > it
> > > will be back open. A deal was made with Gary
> > > Airport and NS/CSX to rebuild all the
> > > connections.
> >
> > No sorry, except for a brief stretch just west
> of
> > Tolleston, the line will be completely
> abandoned
> > as part of the Gary Airport expansion.
> > Construction is underway now for routing WB
> > movements from PRR to the parallel ex-Wabash
> Sugar
> > Track.
>
> Read the STB report. Yes the historic alignment
> of the PRR is being abandoned but connections are
> being replaced to allow movements from NS Chicago
> line at CP 501 to the Ft Wayne Line east of
> Tolleston.

Huh? Nothing I said contradicts that. And the map clearly shows the transition to the ex-WAB.

As for NS gaining trackage rights on CSX. The only rights to be gained are from State Line to Barr. NS inherited rights over the CSX main from State Line to Clarke when they acquired the Wabash.

It's also worth noting that another reason for this construction (apart from the airport expansion) is to enable NS to access the CN/EJE City Track in order to reach Kirk Yard. Currently, interchange between NS and CN is done at Pine Yard, and NS trains often must occupy one of the Chicago Line mains to carry out their switching. That's unacceptable on a route that sees 90 or so trains a day.