Eastern Railroad Discussion > Detoured CSX Oil Train (NS 071)

CSX ran a K080 from Parsons yard in Columbus, Ohio to NS's Watkins yard today. The train then turned into a 071. They ran around their train and proceeded to switch a few cars out at the east end. I do not know if they are headed towards Portsmouth or they are just simply storing cars in Watkins. Regardless, it was a neat thing to see.

1: K080 traversing part of the Logan Line to reach the C&O Connection at Watkins

2: 071 coming out of the east end of Watkins preparing to shove some cars in the yard

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I would be surprised if CSX merely handed this train over to NS for storage - couldn't it just do that in its own yard? But I'm also not sure, if it detoured via NS, where NS would give it back to get it to Yorktown. I suppose the most plausible answers are Lynchburg, VA, if there's still an interchange there, or Richmond.

That cantilever in the second shot is crazy with the number of signal heads it has. Don't think I've ever seen one with that many. Nice shots.

toledopatch Wrote:
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> I would be surprised if CSX merely handed this
> train over to NS for storage - couldn't it just do
> that in its own yard? But I'm also not sure, if it
> detoured via NS, where NS would give it back to
> get it to Yorktown. I suppose the most plausible
> answers are Lynchburg, VA, if there's still an
> interchange there, or Richmond.

Glasgow, VA?

Three tracks ( back there a little way ) so there are three signal sets in each direction.

CSX's available detour routes on it own lines or those of another carrier are all worse as far as grades, curves and distance than the ex-C&O mainline across WV. That line has the best eastbound grade/curve/alignment of any route from the Mid-West to the East. the only route that comes close is the ex-NYC line via Buffalo and Selkirk, which is favored by CSX for its Philly oil trains, 2-3 per day. But to get back to the ex-C&O in Richmond to get to Yorktown they would have to drop down thru Baltimore's Howard Street tunnel, then thru Washington DC and Virginia Ave tunnel. Can you imagine the press if anyone caught an oil train doing that?

East on CSX via the ex-B&O means probably pushing the trains over Sand Patch and maybe up to Martinsburg, WV and still must be routed via Virginia Ave tunnel in DC to get on the ex-RFP where there is a straightforward, albeit clumsy, connection to Fulton Yard on the ex-C&O and east to Yorktown. As mentioned previously, going via Huntington, WV to Cumberland using Q316/317 route involves the worst EB grades against loads in the East. I'm confident they will not try that. CSX, using their own routes, could go down the ex-C&O Clinchfield route to Bostic then east to Hamlet and north to Selma and Richmond. Next use the ex-L&N south thru Ravenna and Knoxville to Atlanta and ex-SAL to Hamlet, etc. Or go from Chicago to Evansville, Nashville - Atlanta Hamlet, etc. All involve bad grades for oil trains and substantial circuity.

Going to NS at Columbus then old NYC/PC/CR via Charleston, WV and passing the derailment site just across the river at Alloy to the old VGN at Deepwater would be absurd. The ex-VGN from Deepwater to Mullens and beyond has the worst grade/curve combination in the east. OK for coal and grain, not for flammables. Even giving it to NS in Columbus for routing via the ex-NW 'Pokey' is bad; don't know why NS would accept that. But they do run a few ethanol unit trains on that route. Interchange back to CSX in Virginia would have to be at Balcony Falls; Lynchburg does have a connection in the right direction.

CSX is better off to store K080 Yorktown trains until derailment is cleared.

Update: This 071 did actually go to Portsmouth

Posted from Android

CSX could detour via the NS from Columbus to Petersburg VA then up CSX to Richmond

rickbarc33 Wrote:
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> CSX could detour via the NS from Columbus to
> Petersburg VA then up CSX to Richmond

Sounds like the best route, keep it on main lines all the way.

"Lynchburg does have a connection in the right direction."

No, would have to run around train or put fresh power on the east end or shove down the hill. Also, the connection from NS is the original Southern main line down to the James River and is steep.

Jimbo Wrote:
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> rickbarc33 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "Lynchburg does have a connection in the right
> direction."
>
> No, would have to run around train or put fresh
> power on the east end or shove down the hill.
> Also, the connection from NS is the original
> Southern main line down to the James River and is
> steep.


I think he accidentally dropped the "not" after "does" in his sentence, because right before this he says an N&W->C&O connection out of Roanoke would have to be made in Balcony Falls.

NS has moved several oil trains if not more via Columbus and the Pokey the past six months or so.

tp117 Wrote:
> Going to NS at Columbus then old NYC/PC/CR via
> Charleston, WV and passing the derailment site
> just across the river at Alloy to the old VGN at
> Deepwater would be absurd. The ex-VGN from
> Deepwater to Mullens and beyond has the worst
> grade/curve combination in the east. OK for coal
> and grain, not for flammables. Even giving it to
> NS in Columbus for routing via the ex-NW 'Pokey'
> is bad; don't know why NS would accept that. But
> they do run a few ethanol unit trains on that
> route. Interchange back to CSX in Virginia would
> have to be at Balcony Falls; Lynchburg does have a
> connection in the right direction.
>
> CSX is better off to store K080 Yorktown trains
> until derailment is cleared.

rickbarc33 Wrote:
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> CSX could detour via the NS from Columbus to
> Petersburg VA then up CSX to Richmond

That's also possible, however there is a steep downgrade between Acca Wye and "AM Jct." in downtown Richmond which might raise more eyebrows than the "Capitol Corridor" under Washington, D.C. if oil trains use that on a regular basis. I don't know the percent of grade, but it takes heavy grain trains or coal trains being shoved up that hill (about 3 or 4 miles) almost half an hour to get upgrade, and that's several times a day, 24/7. I believe the gradient is close to that the downhill in Quebec where that oil train ran away and exploded, burning much of the town.

Now, before anyone jumps up and says "Oh, no, another potential city disaster!" let me point out that CSX and Amtrak use Richmond's Hermitage Hill all the time - and so far the only "issues" we've seen are pull-aparts (frequent, even with pushers going uphill) and once, several years ago, a loaded GRAIN hopper actually separated near the second seam of the car's shell, causing the train to go into emergency and spilling the contents (a LOT of corn) on the 2-track right-of-way. (The pigeons had a feast that day - and for several days thereafter, LOL!)

If any detoured, eastbound crude oil trains were sent to Petersburg, they would have to enter Collier Yard, have the power either RUN AROUND the train to go north (the switch from NS to CSX there is only toward the south), or have CSX add their own power there, go north to Richmond's Acca Wye, "turn right" and go down Hermitage Hill, and re-crew at Fulton Yard (where current oil trains change crews anyway). Then it would proceed on to Yorktown on its resumed, regular routing from Fulton Yard.

mhiser Wrote:
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> NS has moved several oil trains if not more via
> Columbus and the Pokey the past six months or so.

I have heard of empties running that way, but operation of loads on NS via Columbus/Roanoke would be news to me.

The random empties started back in August. I could be wrong, but I think there's also been a handful or less loaded trains get routed that way. There was quite a few odd detours back in January bypassing issues elsewhere on NS.


toledopatch Wrote:
> I have heard of empties running that way, but
> operation of loads on NS via Columbus/Roanoke
> would be news to me.

mhiser Wrote:
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> The random empties started back in August. I could
> be wrong, but I think there's also been a handful
> or less loaded trains get routed that way. There
> was quite a few odd detours back in January
> bypassing issues elsewhere on NS.
>
>
> toledopatch Wrote:
> > I have heard of empties running that way, but
> > operation of loads on NS via Columbus/Roanoke
> > would be news to me.

Empties have come down the Valley from Hagerstown and gone west via the Pokey. These have been NS movements.

071 crew was on duty in Bluefield at 1145 AM EST. Should be close to Roanoke by now. We'll see what happens after Roanoke.

Jimbo and Toledopatch are right, I forgot to type a 'not'. The Lynchburg connection would be terrible. I thought of the Collier connection too, and I think that is the way it will go. NS and CSX are used to interchanging a lot of traffic there including the trash trains we see in my area. I agree the Hermitage grade in Richmond is steep, I think it is about 1%. My son lived there for five years and at the time made some photo posts of trains on that hill. But i think it is workable, and CSX usually has a helper crew on duty for other trains most times to assist.

Since I cannot type I should not try it while watching TV. I'll be following this thread to see what route the detoured oil train does take. Hope someone can get a few photos. Thanks. jl

071 detour CSX oil train is supposed to be on duty in Roanoke at 10 AM today, Thursday, with a Crewe, Virginia, crew. Looks like the interchange back to CSX will be Petersburg at Collier Yard. Reports and photos would be appreciated!

071 is by Altavista, Virginia, on the former Virginian - on the line that does not go through Lynchburg. Still looking like the interchange back to CSX will be Petersburg.