Eastern Railroad Discussion > Mixed Up Railroads

I don't get it.  I understand about leasing locomotives and that CSX has been leasing all kinds of used engines including the ones that are owned by FURX.  I know that these units had been leased by Norfolk Southern and that is why they were painted in NS black & white and they are now running on CSX as is without the NS markings.  However why in the world would Norfolk Southern now be obtaining used CSX engines?  In looking at several postings on here the photos look like they have only had the CSX markings painted out very carefully I must say, and they are renumbered in NS numbers.  Why did NS want these engines and CSX, who is also having a power shortage, get rid of them?  I do not understand today's railroad management.  I guess I'm getting too old, but none of this makes sense to me.

John in White Marsh, Maryland

NS and CSX made a traded NS got 10 SD80Mac's from CSX and CSX got 10 SD40-2 from NS.

No NS got 12 SD80MACs, CSX got 12 SD40-2s

Posted from Android

12 for 12.

its not just about horsepower. Its about power theory and use. CSX saw the 80MAC's as oddballs.
NS sees them as big power for use on road trains and rebuildable to avoid EPA T-4 restraints.

NS bought severaal hundred SD40-2's at rock bottom prices 2-3 years ago. Still has some to spare. CSX sees them as rebuildable, and desirable for secondary service. Its all about matching locomotives to needs, based on the opinions of the chief mechanical guys. Both companies must feel they got a good deal. And honestly with the climbing prices of SD40-2's it could be argued CSX got the better deal on a resale value, even if they lost horsepower.

NS has tinkered with the 80MACs and have gotten the best out them ... the engineers love them as heavy pullers with no wheel slip ... the units load good and besides the AC6000 CSX units the 5000hp rated 80MAC locomotives are the highest hp units on any road ... i would take it NS bought from CSX all the parts for these units and will centralize their maintenance at Altoona ...

Posted from Android

Alright, now that some of you have explained the 12 for 12 swap, then what happens all the time when they use the other railroad's locomotives?  You know, reciprocation of each others engines?  And this is an ongoing thing now as one can go out to any major class one line and see another companies engines.  So even though one road thinks they have a better deal and they like what they now have, their next train could be being powered by locomotives that they traded away?  This seems crazy any way one looks at it.

John in White Marsh, Maryland

Deciding what's in your fleet and power pooling with other railroads are really two different issues.

Power pooling is basically an accounting exercise. There are a few exceptions, but most of the engines in run-through service are modern, high-horsepower locoomotives, not the older stuff most commonly assigned to yard jobs, locals, mine runs, and the like, or the oddballs like the SD80MACs (which are now 19 years old, by the way). So just because Railroad A has a certain kind of locomotive in its fleet that nobody else uses doesn't been those are going to show up on Railroad B's trains.

One of the key exceptions is that when a railroad gets itself into a big horsepower-hours deficit vis another railroad, it will sometimes provide a group of locomotives to the creditor railroad to make up the debt. Those are often drawn from the bottom of the debtor railroad's motive-power barrel, although the creditor railroad probably has some ability to refuse to accept 'payment' in the form of absolute junk.

ClubCar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alright, now that some of you have explained the
> 12 for 12 swap, then what happens all the time
> when they use the other railroad's locomotives?
>  You know, reciprocation of each others engines?
>  And this is an ongoing thing now as one can go
> out to any major class one line and see another
> companies engines.  So even though one road
> thinks they have a better deal and they like what
> they now have, their next train could be being
> powered by locomotives that they traded away?
>  This seems crazy any way one looks at it.
>
> John in White Marsh, Maryland

Back in the days when railroads assigned steam power to specific districts, and customized the units for that work, your statement would make perfect sense.

But now, oil trains load in North Dakota on BNSF or CN or CP etc and travel a thousand miles on UP, NS, CSX, KCS, and other lines. Having standardized power that crews can handle without difficulty is important. And, having parts available on the other line's facilities is important. (Need a filter for that C424, do you?)

On the other subject, I'd consider NS's ability to rebuild just about anything into reliable, EPA compliant power to be a significant strategic advantage.

CSX had some of those 80MACS in the Bone Valley a few years back. They were dogs. Spent most of their time in storage in the back end of Prairie Yard at Mulberry.
Apparently SD80MACS fit better with NS's power plan and maintenance program.

Danny Harmon
Tampa

KSmitty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 12 for 12.
>
> its not just about horsepower. Its about power
> theory and use. CSX saw the 80MAC's as oddballs.
> NS sees them as big power for use on road trains
> and rebuildable to avoid EPA T-4 restraints.
>
> NS bought severaal hundred SD40-2's at rock bottom
> prices 2-3 years ago. Still has some to spare. CSX
> sees them as rebuildable, and desirable for
> secondary service. Its all about matching
> locomotives to needs, based on the opinions of the
> chief mechanical guys. Both companies must feel
> they got a good deal. And honestly with the
> climbing prices of SD40-2's it could be argued CSX
> got the better deal on a resale value, even if
> they lost horsepower.

That is well stated.

I guess i don't get it. U have one group of personal who thought the world of these monsters and where 4 to 5 pairs were assigned to replace the C30-7A's, in affect 4 to 2 power swap that lived up to their expectations handling the Hill out in western Mass and than CSX comes along with the mindset that their oddballs and reassigning them to the coaldrags out of Cumberland. Than we hear that their garbage, junk, dogs and other thoughts. Is it just different expectations among the crews who operated these units to at first rate them as the best thing since slice bread (CR days) to now garbage?? Granted as what Patch stated that their pushing 19 years now. Than again u have the higher ups (CSX) who just didn't like them period. With thinking like that i guess their's a saying ........when u plant cabbage u get cabbage.

Just my thoughts on the topic

Fred