Eastern Railroad Discussion > CSX making changes

Hearing that CSX will make some changes to operations of manifest trains.  Instead of operating a train every 24 hours they will start the trains every 28 hours.  This saving a start a week.  Not sure what to think of this. On a lot of the mixed trains near me they are fairly short and it wouldn't matter if a few extra cars were on each train.  Now on other trains that are already 100+ cars this could get interesting.  Seems this will increase dwell time and terminal congestion. 

Waycross Yard regularly fills up causing them to hold trains on sidings waiting for a yard track.

I think someone got April fools started early on you...

This would cause chaos in terms of crew, power, equipment, and service design planning. Id be stunned if this is more than sand house gossip. It's one thing to be struggling with providing consistent service, it's another altogether to plan randomness into your operation intentionally.


Posted from iPhone



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/15 16:18 by PittsburghMike.

I think in my area CSX as been testing since the 'winter problems ' began. Carload trains show up at any time versus their previous schedules which i had some knowledge of. True, there are 168 hours in a week and if you divide that by 28 you get six day a week service. Only the 'Q' intermodal trains seem to be important in dispatching, and they rarely run every day with the same schedule or symbole. CSX may mean 'Confusing Schedule Expected'. I'd hate to be a carload shipper on CSX now.

Its true, will cut 14% of trains each week, resulting in 2100 fewer t&e positions

Posted from Android

1 Wrote:
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> Its true, will cut 14% of trains each week,
> resulting in 2100 fewer t&e positions
>
> Posted from Android

It might work for some of the shorter "daily" trains, quite a few of which seem to get annulled anyway, but I can't imagine them running Q394 (for example) only six days a week unless they're 200-car monsters.

Maybe such a 28hr start schedule for non-time sensitive loads would work.  Maybe not.  As mentioned by previous posters, the issue of crew scheduling, etc, becomes a nightmare.  Instead of, say, a 12-16 hour layover for a crew, expand that by 4 hours...and don't forget the added hotel charges.  Someone checking out at 8PM for example pays for the full night.  Oh...go back on a different train than they do now?  That's akin to telling someone with a lot of seniority to take a hike and return on a different train every trip!  It would also be more than devastating to ones' circadian rhythms (24 hour body clock), much like being on the extra board when they started out.

And for time critical shipments...like intermodal...UPS...perishables... I strongly suggest that the biggest intermodal shippers such as UPS and Schneider would move swiftly and completely to NS where their schedules could be consistently met...7 days a week! 

"Oh...Mr #1 senority...you get the next train going West...an all-stops with many setouts and pickups LOCAL to Timbuktu today!!!"   Yea, right!  If the shippers don't succeed at putting an end to that insanity, the unions WILL! 

I'd be really surprised if this plan includes intermodal or JIT automotive traffic, over which the railroad's scheduling is very much determined by the customer, not its own flavor-of-the-month operating plan.

It will only effect general freight trains. Also S section trains will still run as needed.

Posted from iPhone

farmer Wrote:
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> It will only effect general freight trains. Also S
> section trains will still run as needed.
>
> Posted from iPhone

I'm stunned. This is completely moronic and basically flies in the face of running a scheduled railway and equipment velocity, which are basic tenets of sound railroading. I don't see this lasting very long.

I also  dont know  if this is true or not but I saw a  post on  facebook saying csx will start useing Alpha train symbols in  a day or 2.

It looks like you will see a compounding 17% increase of cars in a yard in 1 week's time. They plan to add those cars to the next trip, but they will add up. Add to that, any service issue now will take EVEN LONGER to clear out of a yard. Here's the other thing: We can't run a scheduled railroad NOW. How will it look with EVEN LONGER times between EVEN LONGER trains not getting in and out of yards?

Joe

Well maybe this has something to do with a discussion i heard up at West Springfield Yard on Sunday. The outbound crew was building their train and when time came to compar paperwork so that everyone was on the same page the conductor noticed that his symbol was Q42123 which meant they were operating as Mondays train and somebody else had them as Q42122. After a little while word came down that in fact they were going to run as Q42123.
Q420/421 use to be Beacon Park trains until CSX shut things down there. My understanding now is they operate as needed between Selkirk and West Springfield.

It seems its never a dull day working for CSX...........

Fred

PittsburghMike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm stunned. This is completely moronic and
> basically flies in the face of running a scheduled
> railway and equipment velocity, which are basic
> tenets of sound railroading. I don't see this
> lasting very long.


You don't seem to understand how railroads work.



BRAtkinson Wrote:
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> Maybe such a 28hr start schedule for non-time
> sensitive loads would work.  Maybe not.  As
> mentioned by previous posters, the issue of crew
> scheduling, etc, becomes a nightmare.  Instead
> of, say, a 12-16 hour layover for a crew, expand
> that by 4 hours...and don't forget the added hotel
> charges.  Someone checking out at 8PM for
> example pays for the full night.  Oh...go back on
> a different train than they do now?  That's akin
> to telling someone with a lot of seniority to
> take a hike and return on a different train every
> trip!  It would also be more than devastating to
> ones' circadian rhythms (24 hour body clock), much
> like being on the extra board when they started
> out.


That's not how crews are scheduled.  Very few have assigned trains, most work in a pool or off the extra board taking whatever train is called once they get to the top of the board, so it will have little effect on crews.


> And for time critical
> shipments...like intermodal...UPS...perishables..
> . I strongly suggest that the biggest intermodal
> shippers such as UPS and Schneider would move
> swiftly and completely to NS where their schedules
> could be consistently met...7 days a week! 


We're only talking about junk freight, most of which already leaves at varying times due to power and sometimes crew shortages.

 
> "Oh...Mr #1 senority...you get the next train
> going West...an all-stops with many setouts and
> pickups LOCAL to Timbuktu today!!!"   Yea,
> right!  If the shippers don't succeed
> at putting an end to that insanity, the unions
> WILL! 


Some of drama queens need to take a breather and learn how a railroad actually works.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/15 17:42 by darkcloud.

We're only talking about junk freight, This is funny to me (not insulting the the original author of the term) I take pics of trains passing through Baldwin Fl., God forbid there be a central dispatch for finished rebar or scrap metal , I see rebar northbound and southbound and scrap metal doing the same, It's all money to the RR's  Green junk if you will , LOL

Ed Stewart
Jacksonville, FL

darkcloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PittsburghMike Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm stunned. This is completely moronic and
> > basically flies in the face of running a
> scheduled
> > railway and equipment velocity, which are basic
> > tenets of sound railroading. I don't see this
> > lasting very long.
>
>
> You don't seem to understand how railroads work.
>
>
> 

I've noticed over the years you have a difficult time expressing yourself without insulting condescension towards those that don't agree with you via dismissive types of statements like the above. I feel genuinely sorry for you that you have to go through life in this manner, and it's stuff like this that usually is why I just stick to posting pretty pictures on this site.

Anyways, if you think that intentionally slowing down car velocity in yards that are already in many cases are congested is a good idea, then we don't have much to talk about anyways. They may save on crew starts, but the increased costs in terms of equipment (slower velocity requires more equipment to generate the same number of carloads, plus car hire costs go up as foreign equipment sits online), congestion, crew and power balancing are going to eat them alive. 

And as far as referring to carload freight as "junk" freight, tell that to a shipper who has paid thousands of dollars to move a high value car of plastic resin or chemicals that is critical to their manufacturing process. Believe it or not, CSX does generate trip plans and ETAs for all carload freight, and in many cases, the shippers do care about whether a car arrives today, tomorrow, or next week. 



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/15 20:14 by PittsburghMike.

The initial post stated this excludes 100,200 and 700 series trains, which means that it is scheduled carload trains since 800s and above are unit trains and work trains.

Second, my opinion, and I rarely offer them because I get in enough trouble when I state some facts, is that CSX's major problem is lack of good communication. compared to other parts of CSX I listen and watch a relatively unimportant piece of it. But it is obvious there are unfortunate communication problems where radios cannot be heard in certain spots, crews or yardmasters or dispatchers are on different channels, dispatchers are not nearly as qualified on their territories as the crews are, and yardmasters and dispatchers and if a trainmaster or above is around agreement is rarely consistent. I've heard, even today, a crew being told several times to change what they had been instructed to do. This should not happen to two people who have already been on duty 10 hours!

As for schedules, this was a part of my RR career, I did RR freight schedules  and analyzed their performance. I have a collection of RR freight schedule books as do some of my more noteworthy friends. The most intricate, complete, freight schedule book I have is from PRR in 1955. It is over an inch thick. Most carload freight.....even when it was priority freight back then, which is intermodal now, does have an intense weekly cycle. Shippers send their stuff on Mondays (a bit) then heavy Tuesday thru Friday, some on Saturday and few or none on Sunday. It is called the 'weekend effect'. The way all railroads handled this was to schedule the primary freight trains daily except Sun or Mon, but usually at the same time every day on the days the train did run.

It will be interesting to see how shippers adjust to CSX's  '28 hour' day .Time will tell. I'll be watching from my little perch. 

With a randomness of trains, junk trains, Just in time trains, run throughs, trains with trackage rights,  etc... it going to be fun when Amtrak hits the system.  They seem to have had a problem getting them through on time.  I'll admit, they have done much better in the last year or so but how long will that last if this happens?  A lump of coal doesn't care when it gets to it's destination (the shippers do but the coal doesn't) but a load of people get real unhappy when they get delayed and have to sit for even 10 minutes.

If the company wants it to work, they will make it work, one way or the other.  Someone in the head shed gets this wild idea on how to make things better and they come up with a new way to measure it to prove that they are right.  They get a big raise The employees get the burden put on their back.  They B&M (complain) about it and after awhile, they reluctantly accept it.  Years later we talk about "the good old days."  It's happened where I worked.  It will continue to happen.  It reminds me of a joke I heard about 50 years ago.

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Three railroader get to a hotel and each want a room.  The desk clerk tells them that he has the rooms and it will be $5 each (I know, about a hundred years ago but just play along with me.)  They each hand the clerk $5 and they go to their rooms.  A few minutes later the manager noticed that they were railroaders and they were to get the corporate rate of $10 a night for the crew of 3 so he gives the clerk a $5 bill and tells him to refund the difference to the railroaders.  So, as the clerk was walking to the rooms he thought, “I can’t divide this evenly with three people.  I know, I’ll just give them each a buck and I’ll pocket the $2.  No one will know the difference.” 

So each man ended up paying $4 for his room, they paid a total of $12 for their rooms, the clerk kept $2. That’s $14.  Where did the other dollar go? 

Actually, the hotel got $10 ($15 - $5,) the railroaders got$3, and the clerk got $2.  Creative accounting can make things look any way you want them to look.
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Call a week six 28 hour days or seven 24 hours, if you juggle the numbers right, it's going to work just fine.

John

After posting my 2 cents worth and reading Pittsburgh Mike's  response about  the 'junk freight' concept I totally agree with him. My entire RR career was with so called 'junk freight'. I had revenue stats, etc. Over fifteen years ago some what you call 'junk freight' carloads generated over $5000 each for Conrail. Try to find, even today, an intermodal freight trailer or container that contributes that much! I doubt it, but I am old now and have no statistics for ammunition. In my area I'll never understand how 100-150 axles worth of a Q032 three days a  week warrants the holding/re crewing other trains  or stopping track inspectors for hours for it's passage. I'd love to know the revenue on those intermodal units, which are defined as UPS, but only about half of them are, a few reefer trainers and domestic cons. I have friends that could do the RR costs. 

Intermodal gets the railroad expedient dispatch because it is mostly deregulated and very visible to market analysts. Carload traffic in many areas is regulated and called captive by both shippers and sometimes railroads, so they can de-emphasize it. This may be a mistake in some areas. Mixed carload non- unit train so called 'junk freight' should really be separated into two categories, high and low priority carload freight. A lot of boxcar/reefer, feed and food grade grain traffic, lumber and non Hazmat edible tank car traffic should receive a higher level of carload service between major USA rail origins/destinations and yards. Some of it should be able to receive the same service as lower level intermodal even if on the same trains. But that is just an opinion. Mixed carload traffic on Class I railroads deserves more attention and better dispatch!  

I heard this from a trainmaster as well as yardmaster today in my terminal. I guess it starts this Saturday. They said something to the effect it is because of crews not rested and more importantly, a shortage of locomotives ! I didn't really inquire further because it doesn't affect me anyways.....