Eastern Railroad Discussion > One Man Train Crews and a Murder-Suicide Scenario

Such an incident has a very, very small probability but could happen.

It appears the co-pilot in the German airline disaster committed murder-suicide. I am wondering how one man crews on trains look in perspective to this incident. I don't have to remind you of the volatile cargo on freight trains, some that are entirely volatile.  Of course, there is much higher probability (relatively speaking) of a lone crewman having a heart attack or passing out.

And before you think I'm way off base, remember the incident with the Monon engineer who was reportedly depressed with a family matter and ran his train at speed (64 mph on a 15 mph curve) into the Monon Depot with the fireman unsuccessfully attempting to stop him. I'll bet if we look at incidents world-wide, we might find other cases of railroad murder-suicide but very rare indeed.

[u]http://www.monon.org/wrecks/1951Monon.pdf[/u]


In the Monon case, another crew member didn't help. But I also suppose an engineer could figure out a way to keep the conductor out the cab.  Yes, the conductor could big hole it from outside of the cab, but by that time it might be too late.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/15 12:54 by wabash2800.

Of course, one of the proposed pre-requisites for one-man (or no-man) operation is Positive Train Control.

There already are one-man engine crews moving Amtrak passenger trains in certain crew districts, and of course one man's failing was blamed for the Metro North Spuyten Duyvil wreck. This is not a new risk.

A Monon engineer in late 40s or early 50s committed suicide at Monon IN by wrecking a passenger train and demolishing the Monon Depot.  My Monon book is not available so I cannot be more precise.  My real point is that this murder /suicide is not something new.

ALLEN 

Allen: that was the wreck I was referring to in my post with the link...


krm152 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A Monon engineer in late 40s or early 50s
> committed suicide at Monon IN by wrecking a
> passenger train and demolishing the Monon Depot. 
> My Monon book is not available so I cannot be more
> precise.  My real point is that this murder
> /suicide is not something new.
>
> ALLEN 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/15 12:08 by wabash2800.

True, but a train at speed, especially a long one, could be put into a brake  application by PTS but still get down the track a way before it finally stopped, correct?

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course, one of the proposed pre-requisites for
> one-man (or no-man) operation is Positive Train
> Control.
>
> There already are one-man engine crews moving
> Amtrak passenger trains in certain crew districts,
> and of course one man's failing was blamed for the
> Metro North Spuyten Duyvil wreck. This is not a
> new risk.

What if an asteroid hit earth tomorrow and wiped out everything?

That would solve all our problems and what if's...

nsrlink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if an asteroid hit earth tomorrow and wiped
> out everything?

nsrlink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if an asteroid hit earth tomorrow and wiped
> out everything?

I am laughing so hard right now after reading this, thank you!!

Posted from iPhone

I just do not approve of one man train crews on large line haul trains of any commodity. That is where the railroads make their real  money; if they cannot afford to pay two men very good wages to be alert and aware of each other at any time day or night in all kinds of weather then just hang up the corporate shingle! The costly side of freight railroading is yard and local operations. Here, at slow speeds, with restrictions for Hazmats, and at the approval of the crew base in that area for certain operations, then maybe a belt pack one man crew could be safely used. Sometimes they do it here now, on CSX, yard only, but not on our shortline which still uses two alert humans.   

Every time I try to get people to plan for emergencies, they home in on the dramatic but less likely. Yes, a lone engineer might commit an act of terrorism, but it isn't terribly likely.
What's much more probable? Illness or injury. "Illness" wouldn't even have to be a heart attack. How many times have you or someone you knew come down with flu bad enough to impair judgment, or food poisoning that left you almost incapacitated? As far as injuries go, tragic trauma from a bad grade crossing accident could happen, but falling and getting hurt on the ice somewhere in the middle of the night is more likely. The other possibility is crime directed at an engine crewman, which might mean that going out to check the consist would be a bad idea in some areas.

When we plan how to handle single-operator trains, there's what to look at first: how will we relieve engineers who become disabled? How do we expect a lone engineer to roll by another train in a safe way?

Rebecca Morgan
Jacobsburg, OH

1 Engr. 31,000 tonnes. Planned to operate in full remote control - no Engr.

https://www.royhill.com.au/overview/rail/

Good points Rebecca. And we know that some folks won't take time off or admit they're sick, with bad consequences. And then some of us have been coerced by employers not to take time off. (That unfortunately, is often a consequence of fellow employees abusing the system and taking time off for an illness that doesn't exist.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/15 07:24 by wabash2800.