Eastern Railroad Discussion > How does CP get between Niagara Falls and Buffalo?

When Amtrak took over dispatching of the Whirlpool bridge between Ontario and NY, I believe this signalled the end of freight crossing the Niagara River.
Does Canadian Pacific now use CN trackage rights to travel between ON and NY via Fort Erie?  Is any of the former TH&B between the bridge and Hamilton still in tact?
Thanks!
Andy

Hovercraft.

CP trains cross the Niagara River at Fort Erie. The CP track through Falls Ontario has been removed, and southwest of there it's now a dead-end spur from Brookfield. It has been that way for at least a decade.

Of the two rights-of-way between Fort Erie and the Brookfield area, one must be the ex-CASO and the other the ex-TH&B? It's hard to tell looking at it now, not knowing historical ownership and with various connections having been built over the years, but I presume the CASO was what went through the Welland Tunnel. And I thought the line from Brookfield up to the Falls that CP used was ex-CASO, too.
 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/16 10:10 by toledopatch.

CP uses the CN Stamford Sub from Brookfield to Fort Erie.

Bill Miller
Galt, ON

The parallel line would be ex TH&B now used as car storage between Brookfield and Stevensville.  It is ripped up into Fort Erie.

Bill Miller
Galt, ON

CP didn't use the Whirlpool Bridge......the used the parallel Michigan Central Bridge next to it. Some pictures here:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3713716,3713950#msg-3713950

My experience on the TH&B years ago, our track ended at Coyle yard (Welland) and we had running rights on the NYC east of Welland to Montrose yard. I did one trip on an EL detour train summer of 1972, east from Hamilton on the TH&B, over to the NYC at Welland, pickup up a "pilot" at Montrose and wobbled our way through downtown Niagara Falls and I quite certain that we went across on the MCR bridge. Stopped at the US Customs office, dropped off paper work and pulled by at 5 mph. Details are hazy in my mind, possibly left the train at Blackrock??  We taxied back to Hamilton.
I never did a trip "east" from the new TH&B yard at Welland and can't comment on that route.     Doug

I was aboard the Red Unit Circus Train in late 1988 when the show went to play Hamilton, Ontario -- via the Baffalo gateway.  I vividly recall being woken up on the departure day by a tremendous ROAR outside the train as we rolled "walking speed" into the town where the rail line crossed back into the 'States:  it was Niagara Falls -- my first time seeing it, and it woke me up that morning.  It was like seeing God Himself pouring out a huge pitcher of green water!  I do remember that the trip INTO Canada had us acquire a  yellow TH&B caboose; I have an image of it - somewhere - on the flats during the unloading near Hamilton.  QU:  would the images of the "cut" line above be THAT line we used to get into and out of Canada during 1988?

Black Rock is directly across from Fort Erie in Buffalo. 

If you took the EL train through Montrose Yard you had to go over the MC bridge in Niagara Falls, the only possible outcome there.

Bill Miller
Galt, ON

rbx551985 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was aboard the Red Unit Circus Train in late
> 1988 when the show went to play Hamilton,
> Ontario -- via the Baffalo gateway.  I vividly
> recall being woken up on the departure day by a
> tremendous ROAR outside the train as we rolled
> "walking speed" into the town where the rail line
> crossed back into the 'States:  it was Niagara
> Falls -- my first time seeing it, and it woke me
> up that morning.  It was like seeing God Himself
> pouring out a huge pitcher of green water!  I do
> remember that the trip INTO Canada had us acquire
> a  yellow TH&B caboose; I have an image of it -
> somewhere - on the flats during the unloading near
> Hamilton.  QU:  would the images of the "cut"
> line above be THAT line we used to get into and
> out of Canada during 1988?

The only track that would have had a view of the Falls would be the line that we're talking about here -- the CP Montrose Sub ex-CASO between the MC Bridge and Brookfield. Once CP arranged to operate its Buffalo freights via Fort Erie, this line became unnecessary as a through route, and Niagara Falls, NY similarly became a dead end for freight traffic as well.

The other Niagara Falls trackage, which crosses the Whirlpool Bridge and today is used only by Amtrak's Maple Leaf trains, goes northwest on the Canadian side of the river toward St. Catharine's. CN used to have a yard near the Falls Ontario passenger station but I have no idea if they even go there any more.

I've never fully understood why there were two railroad bridges next to each other across the Niagara River near the Whirlpool, unless one of them was originally Niagara Junction or something.

Also, I take it that, on paper, the Canada Southern was a subsidiary of Michigan Central rather than directly to New York Central?

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/16 15:10 by toledopatch.

How many trains do CP and CN presently run east of Hamilton nowadays?

Posted from iPhone

The CN runs on the Grimsby sub out of Hamilton- two freight trains # 421 & 422. The odd # 232(empty auto racks from CSX on Tues & Thursday plus the odd local trains # 523 & # 524.

​CP runs on its own Hamilton sub to Ft Erie- usually about 2-3 freights each way a day.!
 

Mike Bannon
St Catharines, ON



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/16 18:16 by algoma11.

What year was MC Bridge abandon?

BCHellman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What year was MC Bridge abandon?

Train traffic across the bridge ceased in the mid-2000s, probably 2003. I photographed a CP train crossing it, if I recall correctly, in November 2002. The next time I went to Niagara Falls, definitely in April 2004, the track through town had been removed.

algoma11 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The CN runs on the Grimsby sub out of Hamilton-
> two freight trains # 421 & 422. The odd #
> 232(empty auto racks from CSX on Tues & Thursday
> plus the odd local trains # 523 & # 524.
>
> ​CP runs on its own Hamilton sub to Ft Erie-
> usually about 2-3 freights each way a day.!
>  

So the "Niagara Gateway" sees three trains each way per day between CN and CP? 

More like 4 each way, there is lots of CN locals. #561,562,563,564 most run everyday. CP runs locals as well each day on the Hamilton sub primarily from Welland yard to Port Mailand and to CN Southern yard at Welland and to Trillium Railway Feeder Yard at Welland. .
The Niagara region is a bit confusing  with routings.
​One can see the CN grimsby sub being only Via/Amtrak and Go Transit if a few years with the CP Hamilton sub being the main freight artery.

Mike Bannon
St Catharines, ON