Eastern Railroad Discussion > Long Hood Forward

Aside from Southern and Great Northern (I think), did any other roads run long hood forward? Do engines come from the manufacturer standard with two sets of controls, or does the road have to request this? Also, does the engineer have any say in whether the engine runs long or short hood forward? Thanks in advance for your help!

kevdog77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aside from Southern and Great Northern (I think),
> did any other roads run long hood forward? Do
> engines come from the manufacturer standard with
> two sets of controls, or does the road have to
> request this? Also, does the engineer have any say
> in whether the engine runs long or short hood
> forward? Thanks in advance for your help!

The N&W also ran long hood forward as well. No, not all units came with control stands for running each way, those that did were called dual control stands units.

Conrail had some GP38's with dual control stands.


Adam


DenisFBlake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kevdog77 Wrote:
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aside from Southern and Great Northern (I
> think),
> > did any other roads run long hood forward?
> Do
> > engines come from the manufacturer standard
> with
> > two sets of controls, or does the road have
> to
> > request this? Also, does the engineer have
> any say
> > in whether the engine runs long or short
> hood
> > forward? Thanks in advance for your help!
>
> The N&W also ran long hood forward as well.
> No, not all units came with control stands for
> running each way, those that did were called dual
> control stands units.
>
>
>

The RF&P ran their GP35s and GP40s long hood forward, when necessary. They had horns on either end. If I remember correctly, they ran odd numbers facing north, even facing south, so they didn't have to turn the consist at Richmond or Potomac Yard. Trios of the EMDs were common, and occasionally they ran long hood forward. I miss that railroad. CSX killed them off quickly in 1991 and scattered the EMDs to the winds.

Don Kalkman

TAMRwinterCONV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Conrail had some GP38's with dual control
> stands.
>
>
> Adam
>

I believe these were originally Penn Central units.

Aaron
eXtra315

Lots of railroads ran 1st generation geeps and Alco road switchers long hood forward. I know that the New York Central and the Pennsylvania ran their GP 7's and 9's long hood forward. Penn Central and Conrail inherited these units and they all stayed long hood forward. By long hood forward I mean that the control stand is set up so that the long hood is the front of the locomotive. (The front is designated with an F stenciled on the frame). By the way The Southern originally ran their early diesel locomotives and even GP30's and 35's short hood forward but then changed everything to longhood forward.

Soo 6049

B&LE ran their SD-9 units long end first.

Tim K3HX

Along with those GP38s that went to Conrail, Penn Central also ordered some U23Bs with dual control stands. According to a thread some time ago, the reason was so the engineer could easily switch sides on Northeast Corridor local runs, therefore eliminating any need to turn the power at the turn point of a trip.

Some of the dual-stand Norfolk Southern SD45s ended up on Guilford, and I recall hearing about an edict that since these units were so equipped, they were not to be turned just to get the short hood in the lead on trains.

DenisFBlake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The N&W also ran long hood forward as well.
> No, not all units came with control stands for
> running each way, those that did were called dual
> control stands units.
>
>

N&W only ran their units long hood forward in the later years. Up until the mid '70's, all units were bought with high short hoods and run short hood forward, until... N&W #1728 was running conventionally when it hit a loaded gravel semi-truck at a grade crossing. Killed the crew and the driver, destroyed the nose, cab and front pilot of the unit. N&W, which still used East End Shops in Roanoke, where all of their steam was built, sent the unit back to EMD for rebuild. A low profile short hood was installed, and the front end was rebuilt. From then on, N&W ran long hood forward. Most all of the road units already had dual control stands, so this change in operation was not an issue. Most of the Southern units had a single contol stand.

The front of the locomotive is designated by the railroad, in accordance with the FRA mandated 'F' on the front end of the side sill of every locomotive.

Hope this helps.

NSTopHat

NSTopHat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DenisFBlake Wrote:
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > The N&W also ran long hood forward as
> well.
> > No, not all units came with control stands
> for
> > running each way, those that did were
> called dual
> > control stands units.
> >
> >
>
> N&W only ran their units long hood forward
> in the later years. Up until the mid '70's, all
> units were bought with high short hoods and run
> short hood forward, until... N&W #1728 was
> running conventionally when it hit a loaded gravel
> semi-truck at a grade crossing. Killed the crew
> and the driver, destroyed the nose, cab and front
> pilot of the unit. N&W, which still used East
> End Shops in Roanoke, where all of their steam was
> built, sent the unit back to EMD for rebuild. A
> low profile short hood was installed, and the
> front end was rebuilt. From then on, N&W ran
> long hood forward. Most all of the road units
> already had dual control stands, so this change in
> operation was not an issue. Most of the Southern
> units had a single contol stand.
>
> The front of the locomotive is designated by the
> railroad, in accordance with the FRA mandated 'F'
> on the front end of the side sill of every
> locomotive.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> NSTopHat
>
>
The N&W ran long-hood forward for ease of operations... they didn't have to turn the power around or wye it. They ran long-hood forward, and short-hood forward. 1728 was wrecked on the Reading, and rebuilt by the Reading, not EMD, and had nothing to do with N&W running long-hood forward. If that was the case, why did they order the C30-7's set up solely for short-hood forward operation, and the last order of SD40-2's and SD50S's and the first order C36-7's...

The secong order of C36-7's were changed by NS, using the Southern practice of long-hood forward, bi-directional control stand.

CB&Q GP7s were dual control.

B&O GP7's/GP9's/SD7's/SD9's also were long hood forward. No Southern units had dual control stands. Early units like GP30's and SD35's were set up as shorthood forward but had control stands mounted parallel to the cab wall instead of catty cornered. NS has readopted this arrangement on its modern power. It allows for easier running longend forward - or for switching moves. NS has more or less deactivated the fireman side control stand on remaining dual control units. That side has no radio or HDT -therefore engineers can't run from there. RF&P GP35's/GP40's had dual control stands and so did RDG SD45's, some EL units and EJ&E SD38's/SD38-2's/GP38-2's as well...
Larry

Dave:

The Guilford units with the dual controls would be former N&W units since the Southern never had units so equipped. Guilford ended up with former N&W GP35's, GP40's and SD45's.

Chris Toth

Southern Railroad of NJ GP10 #102 has a single control stand, situated for long hood forward operation. It was built for New York Central in April 1957 as GP9 # 6043.

To clarify, neither the N&W nor the Southern had a specific policy on running locomotives long hood forward. The operating practices of both roads was to regularly use its units in either direction to allow for maximum operational flexibility. This prevented the wasted time having to turn power and setup consists in a particular manner.

On the N&W, all of their high hood locomotive purchases and all but six of their Alco T-6 switchers were equipped with dual control stands with the long hood designated as the front. This allowed an engineer to use whichever control stand was the safest and most convenient for the direction and task being performed.

When N&W purchased its first low short hood locomotives in 1974 they also made the switch to equipping them with a bi-directional control stand. These units had ONE control stand mounted parallel to the wall on the right side of the cab with the long hood designated as the front. Southern Railway also equipped its new high hood units in this manner from the delivery of the SD45's in 1967 to the merger with N&W in 1982. This allowed the engineer to be on the right side when operating long hood lead which made it easier to see signals which were normally on the right side of the track. The engineer would be on the left side of the cab when operating short hood lead and the short hood made it much easier to see the signals on the opposite side of the track.

The N&W began equipping its new locomotives with the standard single control stand setup in 1978. The single stand was mounted at an angle to the cab wall on the right side with the low short hood designated as the front. This made things more difficult and uncomfortable for an engineer when operating long hood lead since he would be on the left side of the cab. This made signals more difficult to see and the locomotive harder to operate for long periods since the control stand was essentially behind the engineer when operating in this manner.

NS initially adopted the bi-directional control stand setup for most of its new locomotive purchases prior to 1990. NS began equipping its new locomotives with the standard single control setup in 1990 following a union agreement on the Pocahontas Division which required locomotives to be operated short hood lead in most cases to prevent exhaust fumes from drifting back into the cab. Although NS continues to use the single control setup, the Dash 9-40CW fleet and the latest SD70M order (the first 10 units had desktop controls) have a control stand mounted parallel to the cab side to make operating long hood lead a bit easier when required.


Chris Toth

Here is the setup on all NS bought new units:
B32-8's: LHF/parallel mounted to cab wall

C36-7's: LHF, parallel to cab wall

C39-8's: 8550-8551 have standard control stands - angle mounted SHF, rest are LHF/parallel

C40-8's: 1990 built units have standard stands (angle mounted SHF), rest are SHF but parallel mounted

C40-9's: SHF/parallel mounted

C40-9W's: SHF/parallel mounted

GP59's: ex demos: 4606 has LHF/parallel stand, other 2 are standard SHF/angle mounted, all others are LHF/parallel

GP60's: SHF/parallel mounted

SD50's: LHF/Parallel mounted

SD60's: Units built through 1988 have LHF/parallel, 1990 built units have standard SHF /angle stands, 1991 built units have SHF/parallel mounted

SD70's: SHF/parallel mounted

SD70M's: SHF/parallel mounted

Larry

I don't know if this really applies, but I frequently see a local job on the CSX RF&P sub running through Ashland, VA long hood first. It definately looks like the GP 38's and 40-2's that do this job do not have dual control stands. The engineer looks like a very uncomfortable person when its long hood first. He is sitting across the seat with his back to the window, looking over his left shoulder and his right arm is stretched out to reach the control stand. To add to the problems he is on the 'wrong' side of the cab, so when he is north bound on the 2 track the signals are on the right and he is on the left looking over that long hood. Though if he is running north on the 3 track, then he is on the 'right' side for left hand running ala CNW.

chuchubob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Southern Railroad of NJ GP10 #102 has a single
> control stand, situated for long hood forward
> operation. It was built for New York Central in
> April 1957 as GP9 # 6043.

I notice what looks like the old Jersey Central herald on the cab. Has the SRNJ adopted it as their Herald as well??

Len
KF4JT

PC's U23B's (2750-76) and GP38-2's were delivered set up for long hood forward due to former SOU president William Moore running PC at the time.

Mark Denis

Indeed running long hood in an engine not designed for the purpose can give you a crick in the neck after a good while. Locals do it all the time if they have only the one engine, but on balance it's not for a very long time at any one stretch. As for viewing signals, that's tough alright, and you need another crewman on the other side to keep an eye out.