Eastern Railroad Discussion > CSX collision in Baltimore - photos

A CSX intermodal - probably 174 or 176 - T-boned Q373 this morning under the Russell Street overpass in Baltimore. Two crewmen on the trailer train were transported by ambulance. No other injuries reported.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-trains1010,1,7310081.story?coll=bal-home-headlines

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First contact.

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Derailed cars

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CSX 5107 on the ground

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I just saw the 5107, otherwise known as the W. Thomas Rice Special, the other day in Cumberland. I sure hope the crew of both trains are all right.




-John Zuna

Is that the 5107 on the lead all crunched up? Sure hope it is repaired and returned to service and not scrapped...

JRF

Wow, I just saw the 5107 heading west a week ago while waiting for the Boston-bound OCS from Cleveland. First time I'd ever seen the W. Thomas Rice Special too.

Unfortunately, I didn't grab a roster shot of it. I had my focus on the lead unit, diversity 5001, and it was already by me when I noticed the name. Shucks...

Mike

I went past there about midnight. The tracks were cleared. M of W trucks were still on the scene.

CSXSD70AC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is that the 5107 on the lead all crunched up? Sure
> hope it is repaired and returned to service and
> not scrapped...
>
> JRF


I personally could give a crap about the status of the 5107.

I would rather see the the crew members repaired and returned to service.

Having been a witness to this, it seems pretty clear that something went wrong on the eastbound TOFC train. There is an interlocking at Ridgely St. where the tracks merge onto a single track into the Howard St. tunnel. The westbound was still on the single track when the eastbound apparently ran the signal at Ridgely St. and sideswiped it. The eastbound must have been given an approach at Carrols so that it could move up while the westbound was clearing the single track, but to me it seemed to then move up rather fast considering that it knew it had to watch for ared at Ridgely St. -- and once there it should have been obvious to the engineer that the westbound still wasn't clear. Weather could not have been clearer. At this point, it's a real mystery to me.

CSXvet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having been a witness to this, it seems pretty
> clear that something went wrong on the eastbound
> TOFC train. There is an interlocking at Ridgely
> St. where the tracks merge onto a single track
> into the Howard St. tunnel. The westbound was
> still on the single track when the eastbound
> apparently ran the signal at Ridgely St. and
> sideswiped it. The eastbound must have been given
> an approach at Carrols so that it could move up
> while the westbound was clearing the single track,
> but to me it seemed to then move up rather fast
> considering that it knew it had to watch for ared
> at Ridgely St. -- and once there it should have
> been obvious to the engineer that the westbound
> still wasn't clear. Weather could not have been
> clearer. At this point, it's a real mystery to me.

Nothing like a little speculation to hang a crew with. This is why crews hate railfans. Signal problems? Brake problems? No mention of that. Could have been anything. But with this reply, the crew was at fault no ifs ands or butts. No alternatives were given...

We all saw what happened, no need to blame the crew just yet. Just hope they are doing well...Thats all...

Al Moran,
The SD80MACKing

Good points, which I recognize. But if you'll read my words more carefully, I started off saying merely that it appeared "something went wrong" and concluded that it's a "mystery to me." In between were merely some facts. I didn't see the Ridgely St. signal, but whether it erroneously showed clear or not is almost beside the point, since it was obvious the westbound was still in the interlocking. Brake failure may well be a possibility. As I noted, the EB seemed to be approaching rather fast considering the circumstances.

If it showed clear at Carrolls or at Bailey (not Ridgely Street anymore) the Q174 had no reason to stop and that would be a signal problem.

You state, "the crew must have been given an approach at Carroll's". Did you see it?

You also state "apparently, the crew ran the signal at Ridgely Street". Did you see that signal? "Apparently", sounds like you didn't...

You basically said it was crew error and while that may turn out to be true, you still have to look at ALL of the possibilities.

Al Moran,
The SD80MACKing

Let's not quibble over this; it's hardly worth it. I used the words "apparently" and "must have" on purpose, since they were chosen to indicate assumptions on my part and not observable facts, and are normally recognized as such. (Having spent 30+ years as an officer for C&O-B&O-CSX, too many of which were spent trying to mediate between union reps, managers, and lawyers, I hope I learned the art of weaselwording.)

But be that as it may, I do maintain that even if there were a signal malfunction, it would have been almost academic since the EB and WB were running alongside one another right up to the interlocking. Brake failure is a better possibility, but again that's only speculation. Not having a scanner (see, I'm not really a pure railfan) I have no idea what kind of communications transpired, and must assume (there's another one) that something was said before the crash.

CSXvet Wrote:
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> But be that as it may, I do maintain that even if
> there were a signal malfunction, it would have
> been almost academic since the EB and WB were
> running alongside one another right up to the
> interlocking.


Thats the real point, indeed. Absent brake failure where the crew was taking appropriate steps but were helpless to stop, it really comes down to a case of situational awareness failure, regardless of whatever signal indication may have been received.

Independant of the true cause of this incident, I guess I just don't understand the point of defending crews who lack such basic situational awareness skills. Crews have millions of dollars of equipment and lading within their control, and some of them know less about their situational surroundings than a minimum wage convenience store clerk does.

Hope the crew recovers and the 5107 gets repaired. I caught her in deshler may 11 2002 on tape then o dont think it had w thomas rice special on it. but speedy recovery to the crew
railfan1 out

csx6574 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CSXvet Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Having been a witness to this, it seems
> pretty
> > clear that something went wrong on the
> eastbound
> > TOFC train. There is an interlocking at
> Ridgely
> > St. where the tracks merge onto a single
> track
> > into the Howard St. tunnel. The westbound
> was
> > still on the single track when the eastbound
> > apparently ran the signal at Ridgely St. and
> > sideswiped it. The eastbound must have been
> given
> > an approach at Carrols so that it could move
> up
> > while the westbound was clearing the single
> track,
> > but to me it seemed to then move up rather
> fast
> > considering that it knew it had to watch for
> ared
> > at Ridgely St. -- and once there it should
> have
> > been obvious to the engineer that the
> westbound
> > still wasn't clear. Weather could not have
> been
> > clearer. At this point, it's a real mystery
> to me.
>
> Nothing like a little speculation to hang a crew
> with. This is why crews hate railfans. Signal
> problems? Brake problems? No mention of that.
> Could have been anything. But with this reply, the
> crew was at fault no ifs ands or butts. No
> alternatives were given...
>
> We all saw what happened, no need to blame the
> crew just yet. Just hope they are doing
> well...Thats all...
>
> Al Moran,
> The SD80MACKing


And what, CSXVET, is to say that the dispatcher dind't foucl up?? If we're going to speculate how about throwing him/her into the mix...the first thing to blame is the crew and it might not always be their fault either.

Crew injuries were reported as "not life-threatening." Both were able to climb down out of the cab under their own power.

I'm dense, perhgaps, and senile for sure, but I don't see that anything I wrote puts direct blame on the crew. If so, it wasn't intended since, obviously, I wasn't sitting in the cab. I still label it as a mystery.

Additional info from the Sumpaper this AM.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.trains11oct11,1,2329484.story?coll=bal-local-headlines

      Using the word 'apparently' means "yes, that is most likely what they did. End of story, they are guilty of ****."   Whatever it may be that one is blaming them for