Model Railroading > A different layout design question

Please chime in and give me your opinionated answer to this question: Given an overall layout shape that is an around the walls oval with a peninsula, is it more preferable to put a staging yard a) along a wall; or b) on the peninsula?

I see the following pros and cons:

Along the wall provides for longer staging tracks.

ATW: no potential need to turn trains.

ATW: less access to 0-5-0 the consists between sessions

ATW: tougher access for maintenance

ATW: harder to scenically deal with each end of the yard

Peninsula:

easier access for maintenance and 0-5-0

Creates a reversing section in the wye

Eats space on the peninsula I could use for industries and line terminus

Where to begin. My Santa Fe, era 1989, is on three decks. I have a total of five staging yards.
One is partially visible at Oklahoma City yards, and is along the wall. It extends into a walkin closet area, where cars are removed and new trains set up by a "trainmaster in a hole" concept.

The other end of that mainline is partially on a helix which is somewhat difficult, and on tracks running again along a wall and into the same walk in closet, but at a different level. I would not do staging on a helix again, as maintenance, though minimal, is more difficult. This yard is handled by the same "trainmaster in a hole" so that individual stays busy.

A third staging yard is Waynoka OK and is on the lowest deck, and is along a wall, but very accessible, even though the mainline leading to it isn't. But because of the lower height, can lead to leg cramps and the danger of being run over by a fast moving operator.

The fourth staging is a small one, running along a wall, which only holds three trains and doesn't have to be accessed directly during a session.

The fourth is a BN staging yard, located more in a semi-penisula, representing Tulsa's Cherokee Yard, fairly easy to access as it is along the outside aisle.

All yards are dead end with no turning because I run point to point, trains are not turned during operating sessions, but are restaged after each session.

Any time you have to reach long distances, it is a pain, in more ways than one. I believe David Barrows at one time had a double ended staging yard on a penisula on the Cat Mountain, and I remember envying him for it. However, my layout was started in 1988 and I don't tear it down every 4 years or so, therefore it will probably remain as is, with the inconveniences of access.
I have minimized them to a workable level.

One last thought, staging tracks that are out of sight, hard to reach, whatever, should contain some of your best and most bullet proof trackwork.

Bob

ANYTHING THAT IS OUT OF ARM REACH IS A PAIN IN THE A$$! This should be layout rule #1! My staging is pretty much like Bob's above. Only 2 yards, one at each end. the access is pretty easy but my operations do not call for trains to be turned during a session. The deepest part of the layout is a tad out of arm reach but with a stool Its accessable. What you really have to do is invision the kind of ops you are planning, lay it out on paper on the floor or maybe on some folding tables and walk through a session. To me, the ops should drive the plan.

My operations are point to point, a branch line and/or spun-off short line depending on my mood of the day. The layout is in essence one big switching operation, and the staging yard is to support live interchange. That said, I also get in the mood at times where I want to chase cabeese, so there's a continuous run connection, and I'm also considering a small coal train that runs on trackage rights.

The coal train would IRL originate and terminate in the staging yard, as does the interchange traffic. I'm allocating 2 tracks for the interchange, one for the coal, and one extra.

My standard is 18" deep shelves. If I use an along the wall, there would be a removable backdrop for maintenance, and necessary 0-5-0 work would be done at the interchange and moved into the staging yard.

Mine is along the wall with a loop at one end to turn the trains. I like that arrangement a lot. I think a wye would be a pain. As stated above, make sure you can 0-5-0 within easy reach. Here is a pic of my South Fort Worth staging, with
trains turned and ready for another op session.

---

My layout is along the walls, with twin 4-track, side-by side staging yards also along a wall. All of the layout, both the staging yards and modeled portion, are built on 24" wide hollow core doors, and I've come to realize that anything greater than 24" would be too long a reach to handle uncoupling chores at the various industries.

On a previous layout I had a staging yard that was buried beneath another portion of the layout--with minimum overhead clearance. Despite good trackwork and rerailers on all the tracks, I had constant problems with derailments in all but inaccessible places in that yard--especially so when backing consists into the yard during restaging. I vowed to never have a covered staging yard again, and I'm glad that I've stuck to my vow.

Art House

My final design concept is to be along the wall, although the top layer eventually may cross over in the middle as it will be high enough for an easy duckunder. But in one corner where I can get to all but one side is going to be a helix for moving between layers and turning trains.

The along the walls concept is also conducive to making a few of the sections available as modules for taking to modular meets. I'm making roll-away storage units that I can move in and out from underneath sections to work on them.

So is your layout all going to be on the same level? I tend to drop my staging yards down one level when I design a layout, so it doesn't use any of the precious space on the main level of the layout. I'm still working on my list, but here are some of my Funnelfan's rules of layout design.

1. Keep all track within easy reach, generally 24 to 30" from the edge of the layout.

2. Design your main yard along the longest straight stretch of layout. Yards built on a curve are a pain in the a$$.

3. Run your mainline behind all yards. A operator engrossed in switching is not likely to notice a train approaching on the mainline. Shirtsleeve derailments can get costly after awhile.

4. When building a Helix, go large, go large as possible. Figure at least twice your mainline minimum radius.

5. When there are more than one scenicked level of the layout, stagger the operating areas so people aren't having to work over the top of each other. It's a good idea to make the upper level largely scenery with minimal operations. You can also set it back a few inches from the lower level to make it easier to reach the back tracks on the lower level.

6. When designing staging, again go large, as large as possible. Twice what you think you'll need is a good start.

7. When placing switches in hidden areas, make sure they are still easily accessible.

8. Provide sufficient clearance. Even if you are planning a steam era layout and not planning to run autoracks and double stacks, still provide the clearance to do so. It'll come in handy if you ever want to run the high-wides of the steam era such as transformers or grain bin tops. Railroads were still running a lot of tall loads in the steam era.

9. When you start designing, figure out what a standard size train will be, and stick with that when designing the stagging, sidings, and arrival/departure tracks at the main yards. None of these tracks should be shorter than your standard size.

10. When designing your main yard, a rule of thumb would be to make the shortest classification track exactly one half the length of the shortest arrival/departure track. It's also a good idea to have one arrival departure/track for every two classification tracks. A good example would be to have a yard with three arrival/departure tracks and six classification tracks. And if your standardized train length is 12', then your smallest arrival/departure track should also be 12' and the smallest classification track would be 6' in length.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

funnelfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So is your layout all going to be on the same
> level? I tend to drop my staging yards down one
> level when I design a layout, so it doesn't use
> any of the precious space on the main level of the
> layout. I'm still working on my list, but here are
> some of my Funnelfan's rules of layout design.
>
> 1. Keep all track within easy reach, generally 24
> to 30" from the edge of the layout.
>
> 2. Design your main yard along the longest
> straight stretch of layout. Yards built on a curve
> are a pain in the a$$.
>
> 3. Run your mainline behind all yards. A operator
> engrossed in switching is not likely to notice a
> train approaching on the mainline. Shirtsleeve
> derailments can get costly after awhile.
>
> 4. When building a Helix, go large, go large as
> possible. Figure at least twice your mainline
> minimum radius.
>
> 5. When there are more than one scenicked level of
> the layout, stagger the operating areas so people
> aren't having to work over the top of each other.
> It's a good idea to make the upper level largely
> scenery with minimal operations. You can also set
> it back a few inches from the lower level to make
> it easier to reach the back tracks on the lower
> level.
>
> 6. When designing staging, again go large, as
> large as possible. Twice what you think you'll
> need is a good start.
>
> 7. When placing switches in hidden areas, make
> sure they are still easily accessible.
>
> 8. Provide sufficient clearance. Even if you are
> planning a steam era layout and not planning to
> run autoracks and double stacks, still provide the
> clearance to do so. It'll come in handy if you
> ever want to run the high-wides of the steam era
> such as transformers or grain bin tops. Railroads
> were still running a lot of tall loads in the
> steam era.
>
> 9. When you start designing, figure out what a
> standard size train will be, and stick with that
> when designing the stagging, sidings, and
> arrival/departure tracks at the main yards. None
> of these tracks should be shorter than your
> standard size.
>
> 10. When designing your main yard, a rule of thumb
> would be to make the shortest classification track
> exactly one half the length of the shortest
> arrival/departure track. It's also a good idea to
> have one arrival departure/track for every two
> classification tracks. A good example would be to
> have a yard with three arrival/departure tracks
> and six classification tracks. And if your
> standardized train length is 12', then your
> smallest arrival/departure track should also be
> 12' and the smallest classification track would be
> 6' in length.


10) Do EXACTLY like Funnelfan says--its GREAT advice!

> 7. When placing switches in hidden areas, make
> sure they are still easily accessible.

Also, if you are planning to have switch machines (such as Tortoise or other mechanisms), make sure to leave room (and easy access) to install and maintain your equipment. I've made a couple of poor decisions on my current layout in designing where switches are, so installing switch machines after the fact (or fixing a broken one) is a real pain. Especially in situations where I decided after the layout was built to covert a hand-thrown switch to a remote-control one.

One thing that can really help in switch machine placement if you're stuck with space is to visit the model airplane section of your local hobby shop and investigate some of the bell cranks and other control rod ideas that are available. I used a bell crank and a 3' control rod inside a nylon sleeve to power a switch machine from a distance in a location where I did not leave sufficient room to locate the Tortoise at the switch. Works like a charm.

This is very similar in idea to the old Armstrong method of interlocking controls with rods and cranks reaching out hundreds of feet (in some cases) from an interlocking tower in the times before electrical and pneumatic switch machines.

You didn't mention the size or shape of your room, or the size and shape of the penninsula. This information would be necessary before giving any advice.

Also, do you plan on tunnels, valleys, or multi-level running? What is the base height of your layout?

Given these parameters, in what scale are you working? This could also have a bearing on the design.

Also, one thing I've done with my current layout before I started laying any track is plan, plan, and plan, making sure I had accurate measurements of everything and deciding how to do all of my wiring, power, etc. I've had very few problems, mainly just troubleshooting derailments, which have been a mix of problems with an area of track and wheel/truck problems on cars.

Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html