Model Railroading > Museum Of Science and Industry Chicago IL 1980

Took these on April 4th 1980 when I was there for the day for a visit. It was sure massive to a young train buff and I really enjoyed watching the trains for hours.

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Very nice. I'm guessing they changed it sometime afterthat, as that doesn't look like what I saw there in 1995, but I could be wrong. I don't remember much of it, but the 2002 upgrade was an amazing transformation over what I saw in the 90's.

Posted from Android

Chris Bogley
Bowie, MD

I remember that layout as well. I think my first trip to MS&I was around 1983 or so. This is a postcard I had laying around that i scanned from that era.

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SVTS Wrote:
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> Very nice. I'm guessing they changed it sometime
> afterthat, as that doesn't look like what I saw
> there in 1995, but I could be wrong. I don't
> remember much of it, but the 2002 upgrade was an
> amazing transformation over what I saw in the
> 90's.
>
> Posted from Android

Last time I saw it was in 1978 and it was O-scale. I'm pretty sure it's HO-scale now.

Those photos show what a great model railroad is use to be.
I don't remember how many times I visited that layout and
spent countless hours at various locations just watching
trains, and watching the color signals change as the trains
would pass. Of course one of my favorite RR's at the time was
the Santa Fe so it was easy to understand why I loved this RR
so much. Unfortunately times have changed and we have nothing
like the O-Scale layout that was there. Even though I model in
H-O Scale, the new RR falls far short of the old one.
I've only seen it once and that was enough. cf7

I like that post card of the layout. Does anyone know what did they do with the large O scale layout and its trains?

cf7 Wrote:
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> Those photos show what a great model railroad is
> use to be.
> I don't remember how many times I visited that
> layout and
> spent countless hours at various locations just
> watching
> trains, and watching the color signals change as
> the trains
> would pass. Of course one of my favorite RR's at
> the time was
> the Santa Fe so it was easy to understand why I
> loved this RR
> so much. Unfortunately times have changed and we
> have nothing
> like the O-Scale layout that was there. Even
> though I model in
> H-O Scale, the new RR falls far short of the old
> one.
> I've only seen it once and that was enough. cf7

I saw both the old O-scale and new HO-scale layouts and was impressed with both of them. I'm curious as to why you're underwhelmed by the current layout.

RuleG Wrote:
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> cf7 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Those photos show what a great model railroad
> is
> > use to be.
> > I don't remember how many times I visited that
> > layout and
> > spent countless hours at various locations just
> > watching
> > trains, and watching the color signals change
> as
> > the trains
> > would pass. Of course one of my favorite RR's
> at
> > the time was
> > the Santa Fe so it was easy to understand why I
> > loved this RR
> > so much. Unfortunately times have changed and
> we
> > have nothing
> > like the O-Scale layout that was there. Even
> > though I model in
> > H-O Scale, the new RR falls far short of the
> old
> > one.
> > I've only seen it once and that was enough. cf7
>
> I saw both the old O-scale and new HO-scale
> layouts and was impressed with both of them. I'm
> curious as to why you're underwhelmed by the
> current layout.


First of all, as I stated, I model in H-O Scale.
But the size of this railroad, O-Scale really has
the advantage as you can see distance and you don't
have to use "Selective compression" like you do in
the smaller scales. And the old layout operated
flawlessly. Trains ran as they were supposed to,
nothing was de-railed and everything looked so real.
I was there probably between 6 and 10 times and there
was no exception. The RR ran and made the Santa Fe
proud because I think if I remember correctly, they
did have something to do with the layout in those days. (?)

However when I visited the H-O layout it was nowhere as grand
as the old one. There were trains de-railed, stopped, and it
was nowhere as impressive as the old one was. With all the
space they have, the new RR could have been re-built in
O-Scale and I think trains would be running with out the problems
H-O scale produces when you try to run them like they do on this layout.
As good as H-O is today, it still not anywhere near as durable as
good quality O-Scale equipment. Sure with a smaller scale you can
get more track and buildings in a given space. But sometimes
"More is not better." Just my thoughts FWIW...cf7

I am the general contractor in charge of supplying and maintaining the present HO scale model at MSI, The Great Train Story. The present layout cost $3.5 million and took 2.5 years to build. The major subcontractor was in Florida and the layout was built there, assembled there, and then shipped to a warehouse in Chicago were it was assembled again. Then the layout was assembled permanently at the museum and the scenery elements were applied. In addition to my contract work, there are two exhibit technicians who do the day-to-day work on the layout.

While many hold fond memories of the old layout, the final days were far from clockwork operation. A major thing that did in the old Museum & Santa Fe was when the layout was cut into four pieces to provide access for installing the United 727 onto the balcony. When the O scale layout was reassembled, it NEVER worked as before. Mostly only one train could operate at a time and the CTC and the hump yard were fakes. A local hobby shop was contracted to do a spruce-up, but that didn't hide the fact that the layout was on its last legs. An in-house designer, John Lewellyn was assigned to come up with a new interpertation and the result is The Great Train Story.

The HO scale layout is three tracks, each of which operates only in one direction. Electrically and signally, the layout is divided into ten blocks. The layout is strictly DC...no DCC. Each block hands the train off to the next block. The control throttles sit behind ten respective doors beneath and around the layout. I understand that the controls were designed by an elevator control designer...I've never seen anything like it ever. The signalling uses a "Twin 'T'" design and depends on detecting the resistance of the train. Therefore the last cars in the train carry resistance and to us are known as "FRED cars, LOL. We normally run three trains on each of the three main lines. The trains are mostly "stock" HO equipment, more Athearn and Walthers freight cars...mostly Walthers passenger and Amtrak cars. Most locomotives are Athearn and Athearn Genesis. They last the longest and replacement parts are easy to come by. And we do wear things out...we wear out parts you didn't know exist. On locomotives, axle wipes wear the most.

The most asked question is usually about what lasts best....like I said Athearn and Athearn Genesis. KatoUSA is good but Kato doesn't make any HO scale we can use. A major sponsor grandfathered sponsorship...the BNSF. I spent a half hour in COO Carl Ice's exeuctive offices in Fort Worth, just talking trains. He and Matt Rose, CEO visited the museum last spring. We only run the latest BNSF images...the "swoosh" or "bar" logos as railfans call them. But for special occassions, we do run some historic equipment like the green Empire Builder or the CB&Q Zeyphr or the circus train. Our Amtrak superliner trains are powered by specially modified Athern/Walthers P42s with Genesis motors. And we purchased a complete Super Chief for future running. We try to post posters explaining to our visitors what the special trains story is when we run any.

Llewellyn and the layout designers were faced with the challenge of what BNSF route to model...Chicago to LA like the Museum & Santa Fe, Chicago to Oakland using UP trackage rights, or Chicago to Seattle. The 2200 mile (via Amtrak) route to Seattle won out. We have three sets of HO scale locomotives that actually went the real mile 2200 mile distance. They were repaired and serviced as needed and a log was kept. It took 190 days of running at the rate of 6 to 7 miles per day. A Kato set of SD70MACs was presented to Mr. Hiroshi Kato. I planned to present a Genesis set of 70MACs to John Engstrom of Athearn, but he retired last month. Looks like I have another reason to visit California.

Finally, if you haven't visited in a while, you'll find our present day operation of the layout a vast improvement. Prior complaints about too short of trains and too fast running have been answered. Yes, there are still some visiting school kids, and we suspect some younger adults and teens who try to do an Adamms Family, but they are few and far between. We strive for accuracy in our train consists. I have personally visited Miniatur Wunderland three times and we have a strong partnership too.

And yes, I am the same person with the Acela Portable layout...see you at Amherst 2012.

David Harrison



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/12 18:11 by DHarrison.

railroadjohn01 Wrote:
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> I like that post card of the layout. Does anyone
> know what did they do with the large O scale
> layout and its trains?
The buildings and rolling stock and locomotives were sold on e-bay. You'd be surprised how much people would pay for a memory. The museum has nothing left but a square yard of plaster with Mr. Cronkite's signature on it. The original-original layout was Q scale.

David Harrison

Q being Proto 48 for people to lazy to relay track instead they built new equipment!

Just another photo that I had taken of the museums layout on 4-4-1980. Does anyone know about how much those signals brought in money if they were even sold?

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Thanks, David, for the informative post. When I visited in 2004, it was a very impressive layout. Here's 3 photos, scanned from prints taken then.

B&OB

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Thanks. Hmmm...I wonder how that circus train flat car got left in the prairie in your first shot, LOL.

David Harrison

DHarrison Wrote:

> A major thing that did in the old Museum & Santa
> Fe was when the layout was cut into four pieces to
> provide access for installing the United 737 onto
> the balcony.

It is a 727.

I knew I should have looked that up.

David Harrison