Model Railroading > tender connections for brass steam and DCC sound

There were some great deals at the NPRHA convention swap meet on HO brass steam and I am headed home with a PFM Samhongsha NP X 4-8-0.

I will overnight in Spokane and make a stop at Sunset Jct for parts and a visit. This will be my first DCC install on a traditional brass steamer. There are a couple of questions I have. What connectors are used between the tender and engine? I think it might be possible to use modified NMRA 8 pin plugs but they take a bit of room. Has anyone tried these?

Is there any benefit to using wipers and circuit board strips to make the dead wheels hot so both parts of the locomotive collect power from both rails?

Thanks.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/14 20:49 by fbe.

Great Topic, I usually use the Tsunami connector but i am curiouse to see other ideas available.

Javier Cervantes
Castle Rock , CO

Is this the connector you are using?

http://soundtraxx.com/access/Images/DBX-9000.jpg

How many wires are you connecting between the parts? I can see the orange and grey wires to the motor. One or two track power wires. Add blue and white for the headlight giving a total of 5 or 6. If you cam it the total becomes 6 or 7. I figure the speaker and decoder stay in the tender.

I guess I would prefer a pair of 4 pin connectors flanking the drawbar rather than a single large one on one side.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

Whenever there is space, I try to put the decoder in the boiler and the speaker in the smoke box, you may need to trim the weight, just relocate the parts, that way, you don't need any connector more than the normal tender hook, I have done several and work very well, the sound is also much more realistic as it come out from where it really is,

I hadn't thought about that option but it sure would save a ton of wiring issues. There is no back up light so there is no need to send any wires back. The drawbar would be the black wire connector.

I will pop the top and have a look see when I get home. How does the sound get out of the smoke box?

Thanks.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

I used the micro connectors from TCS (2nd item down)

http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Supplies/Connectors/QuickPlugConnectors.htm

Available in colored (your choice) or black w/ one white. I needed two-4 pins for the connections. Mounting in the smokebox would be beneficial unless you intend to add weight to it. TCS also makes slightly larger "mini" connectors. The micros are very small and I needed tweezers to safely connect/disconnect them.

As far as wiring for all wheel pickup, that will require more connections, and with the availability of these keep-alive modules, it may not be worth the trouble

Good luck!

Sean McCaffery



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/14 04:47 by bigmc83.

For brass, I recommend either using a keep alive or adding extra pickups. If you can fit it (assuming you're staying inside the boiler), the keep alive would take less time but cost more money. Extra pickups/wipers on the opposite side were our "norm" for years until we learned about capacitors.

I left the hobby shop in Spokane with a TSU-1000 medium steam decoder and a 3/4" round speaker with a Soundtraxx baffle. It looks like the speaker will fit in the smokebox. I am not sure about the decoder so I ordered a TSU-750 to see if that will slide into the boiler. Another adventure in the making I am sure.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

The TSU-1000 decoder will not fit into the boiler but the TSU-750 will easily. I will check on a keep alive package install soon. I see if the 3/4" speaker is placed into the smokebox and turned towards the cab the sound will get out of the boiler around the gear box opening.

A thorough check with the multi meter shows the motor case is NOT isolated from the loco frame. So I will face off the inside of the mount with .oo5 styrene sheet and replace the metal screws with nylon ones from NWSL.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

fbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The TSU-1000 decoder will not fit into the boiler
> but the TSU-750 will easily. I will check on a
> keep alive package install soon. I see if the 3/4"
> speaker is placed into the smokebox and turned
> towards the cab the sound will get out of the
> boiler around the gear box opening.
>
> Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

Does this engine not have an open stack?

"Does this engine not have an open stack?"

No, most model steam locos do not. There is either a screw down into the boiler or a pin out the bottom for a solder joint.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

fbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No, most model steam locos do not. There is either
> a screw down into the boiler or a pin out the
> bottom for a solder joint.
>
> Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

I would agree with that in plastic, but every one of my brass locos have open stacks, which makes the thought of a smokebox speaker so attractive as the sound would be coming from the stack! All of mine vary in age from Late 60's to Early 90's, Westside, Balboa, PFM, Sunset and Key products, all with open stacks.

All of mine from the same era are nicely open on top and closed at the base. If I decide to use the smokebox behind the speaker as a soundbox I will have to seal any open stacks but that is not the case in any of the steamers I am working with now.

I am interested in how the whistle sounds with their higher pitch will sound from the smokebox. I will have to remember to get speaker and headlight wires routed over the boiler weight before I seal the speaker in.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

And you think you have a lot of wires!!

This is an install of a QSI Titan stereo decoder in a small O gauge steamer, a Beaver Creek V&T 4-6-0. The small oval speaker fits in the smokebox and the sound comes out the stack and down into the cylinders. The second speaker is in the tender, a larger high base speaker. All those wires are before I started to snake some of them to the rear next to the boiler weight. I run the wires through thin walled plastic tubes. The Titan has so many light outputs that's why there are so many wires. (head and rear light, marker light number board lights and cab lights)

I ended up with 2 pin and 3 pin connectors flanking the drawbar. (reverse light, ground, + speaker, - speaker, tender pick up wire) The second tender pickup is the frame through the drawbar.

The great thing about the stereo sound is you can adjust where the individual sounds come from by a slider in their programmer. Loco in front of you with the smokebox to your left you set the chuff all left, the bell a bit further to the back (right), the whistle, a little more so and the steam generator just about centered along with the rod clank. Next back I set the coupler clank and all the way right (back) the water fill sound.

Trust me, it's worth all the extra time and wires! People are amazed at how real it sounds as it passes before them.

Peter

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There are enough wires in that boiler tube to make an ICBM silo operational.

I am sure glad there is a color code system to make it all easier. Perhaps the next iteration will use fiber optic data feeds.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

Well believe it or not I got them all connected to the right things and everything worked fine! I had to remap 2 of them to the F function that allows me to turn them on and off. (F5 and F6 I believe). One quirk of the QSI Titan is you really need the QSI programmer for setting the front/rear speaker balance and other things. They use a multiple settings within a CV number instead of a different CV # for each function. I was lucky as I already had one.

I think the JMRI team is working on this issue so people with Sprogs can program them. If anyone knows more about this, please comment.

Thanks,

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for sharing the photos and experiences. It is always nice to see what the next generation of the hobby will look like.

I have thought about using the plastic soda straws from restaurants to route wires around boiler weights. The ones from fast food restaurants are a little big for HO, the ones from bars are just too small for the wires and Evergreen styrene seems expensive when there are freebies out there.

Nice neat work you do.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

Come on, FBE, they are not that expensive and I guarantee you will find another use for the leftovers!! I bought one pack of every size and the fact that they slide over each other tightly makes for ease in making banded air tanks for example. Cut thin strips and sand them until they are small enough to use as bands. You can also make headlight bezels to hide the gap between the glass and the reflector in the housing-see above picture and the finished headlight (unpainted) below.

Peter

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Peter,

I shall take my scolding but in my defense I note I am retired on a fixed income, just back from one convention trip and a railfan event in Canada in October to plan for.

As luck would have it I stopped for lunch at my favorite Mom & Pop diner which recently changed owners. The iced tea came with the usual straw in a smaller diameter so my wishes have been met. I do have a stock of telescoping Evergreen and brass tubing to try if need be. I think the straw may work better in this application since the softer walls may deform a bit and slide between the boiler and weight easier than Evergreen.

What do doubleheaded steamers with stereo sounds sound like as they go by? Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon?

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

Ha, God does work in mysterious ways! I was just teasing you anyway.............

I have no idea what they sound like as I have only done that one, so far. I am awaiting an order of Titans so I can get my other 3 sounded up and I'll let u know.

Take care,

Peter