Model Railroading > Learning how to install windows and build from scratch.

I know there has been many a book written on the subject of scratch building and other such projects, but I am trying to figure out a good method for cutting holes for windows. I bought some Double Hung arch top masonry windows from Tichy train group. While the standard windows with wood sills are easy to cut holes for and mount, these arch topped masonry windows are significantly more challenging. The fact that the top is arched doesn't cause me nearly as much grief as the fact that the sills are so thin. The thicker wood sills of the previous buildings will cover up imperfections in the holes, but these thin masonry windows seem to require exact cuts. Anything more than 1/1000 of an inch seems to make the difference between light showing around the window and the window frame not fitting. My tools at the moment are just a metal straight edge and an exacto blade. What kind of tips do you guys have for cutting such holes, and what kind of tools do you generally use? The picture attached shows where I have been practicing and trying to come up with methods for cutting these holes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/14 16:24 by steam290.

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Notwithstanding the need for careful cutting on the showing side, can you put some of Microscale's Crystal Clear on the inside seam, non-showing side, and touch up with black paint? You can use PVA (white glue) to fill the area from the inside and paint it black afterwards.

I am not sure if I understand you correctly but I offer this based on my interpretation of your problem. I think you are going to put lighting inside the building is how I read it.

Rick

Well, first of all, I hate to tell you this, but with masonry walls (brick, cement and stone) the windows frames don't go on the outside like that. If you are not sure of what I mean, consult the real thing and photos.

What I've done, is use a thickness of material (total) of the wall and brick material that just makes the frame come out the correct depth to the edge from the inside and add my brick sill for the bottom (and top pattern brick, if applicable).

As to cutting an unusual shape like that, I mark the opening from the inside and use a "nibbler" that roughly punches out the opening. And then I use a jeweler's file to get the final shape. I purchased my nibbler from Micro-Mark but you can do the same thing by cutting out material with a sharp knife or using a series of drillings with a drill bit before you use the file. Also, you can drill holes in the corners to save time on filing.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/14 17:34 by wabash2800.

Does Tichy have any windows like this that say they are for Masonry? If so, the frame would go from the inside and the flange would be on the inside. But yes, you still have the problem with cutting out the opening. It's also likely that any of their masonry windows will not have a lip but rather be a flush fit.

Perhaps you could take one of the windows and put some dye, paint or ink on it to mark you openings before you cut it?

Another thought would be to make a template and then use that to draw a line around it for your openings.

Regardless of what technique you use, when you file, you will have to test and fit, test and fit, test and fit...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/14 18:09 by wabash2800.

That helped a lot, actually. These methods make sense.

You are correct, masonry windows don't really sit like that. My main concern has been how to mount them in general, outside or otherwise, if they don't have any kind of flange or overhang around them. I'm figuring now that carefully cutting and filing first with some of the above mentioned methods. Then, possibly using some form of plastic putty to fill the gaps where light might come through.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how exactly to mount these by looking at pictures... but maybe this is a little over my head at this stage. I should go back to building company housing which is all I have successfully scratch-built so far. I have included an image above. On this one, I used siding printed on my ink-jet and mounted on 1/16" card stock.

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The wood structure looks great.

You can go outside and look at about any brick building to understand how the windows are mounted in masonry. There is a frame around the window that hugs the inside edges of the opening. If you flip the windows you have and put them in from behind, I think the sashes will be backward. But if your windows do not have a flange at all, that is what you want-just try and get a snug fit as possible and yes, seal it from behind so light will leak out.

Here's a photo of something similar to what you are doing. Note there is a brick pattern at the tip. What modelers usually do for that is to cut a strip from the same brick sheet and curve and glue it to the top of the opening. I recall one well known modeler cutting the circular top to the hole by using a quarter as a guide. Please be very, very careful with sharp blades.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/14 19:45 by wabash2800.

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Get a "hand nibbler" for the square corners. It works great! Just drill a hole to get the nibbler into, line up the corner sides and nibble it out. This would not work on a curve, but you could get a rough cut done and then file the curve to fit.

Mike

In looking closer at the packaging, it is a masonry window with no flanges. That is good as what you want to do is use a small square and mark one horizontal and vertical line for each window on the back side of your wall stock and then trace around the window frame to get the entire window shape. Then after using the Nibler or cutting or drilling out most of the opening, go back and using a Jeweler's file (available at most hobby shops or Walthers cheaply) and file and test, file and test, file and test...to get a snug fit.

It's very important that you use the square to mark vertical and horizontal alignment checks for all the windows to be straight and on the same plain. But you can also use the bricks on the front side as a check too.

wabash2800 Wrote:
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> In looking closer at the packaging, it is a
> masonry window with no flanges. That is good as
> what you want to do is use a small square and mark
> one horizontal and vertical line for each window
> on the back side of your wall stock and then trace
> around the window frame to get the entire window
> shape. Then after using the Nibler or cutting or
> drilling out most of the opening, go back and
> using a Jeweler's file (available at most hobby
> shops or Walthers cheaply) and file and test, file
> and test, file and test...to get a snug fit.
>
> It's very important that you use the square to
> mark vertical and horizontal alignment checks for
> all the windows to be straight and on the same
> plain. But you can also use the bricks on the
> front side as a check too.

Yes, you are correct. They have no flanges. So, in this case, I can't figure out how to inset them as was suggested before. It seems like they would be mounted on the surface, more like my original photo. To inset them, I feel like I would need to construct a box for them to be set into. Does this make sense? With all this in mind, do I basically have that one mounted correctly in the first photo?

Posted from iPhone

Cut and file the holes and mount the windows in the holes. Look at the photo I provided. You are just going to have to make the openings straight and aligned with each other using your markings on the back side of your wall. Cut out as close as you dare to the lines and then us a file to get it right. Keep checking to get a good fit. The frame will not come all the way to the outside edge but be slightly recessed. Again, see the photo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/14 11:03 by wabash2800.

Don't forget the sill plate. You could make that from styrene and lightly sand the corners to break the sharp edge. Paint the sills before installing. Note in the picture that the sills are wider than the window frame opening.

With regards to mounting the window castings, if your wall material is not thick enough to recess the window casting, use styrene on the inside to build up the wall thickness.
You can even carve the brick and mortar lines in the styrene frame by carefully using the edge of a suitable jewellers file for realism. Finally, glue the window castings in from the back and lay the wall face up. The flat surface will set the window frames flush with the back of the styrene frame on the rear of the wall and make them all the same depth. I would also suggest pre-painting your window frames before installation.

Dave Burroughs
Hamilton, ON