Model Railroading > MT-4 question

Hi,
I've developed a little bit of an obsession with SP over the past 2 years, (which is terrible for my wallet since I model the modern era) and the MT-4 caught my eye about a year ago. After a year long debate I'm really close to buying two MT-4s but I've got some questions. First off, are these even worth buying? I've seen mixed reviews and heard about issues with the traction tires, but I've also heard that it was fixed/ is an easy fix. Second, I know SP changed from the small Southern Pacific Lines lettering to Southern Pacific in larger lettering sometime in the 40s, but did any of those tenders survive into the 50s? Thirdly, I know the standard black scheme was on passenger trains and freights, but were the Daylight painted MT-4s specifically assigned to the San Joaquin Daylight? Or if I was to get a black scheme and A daylight scheme would it be possible to run them on a freight together?
Thanks
Travus



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/16 09:43 by suvart.

The fully round Vandy tenders on the Daylight-painted MTs lasted into the '50s because I used to watch a pair of them bring 51 and 52 through Mojave every day.
"Lines" was dropped in June, 1946.

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

MojaveBill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fully round Vandy tenders on the
> Daylight-painted MTs lasted into the '50s because
> I used to watch a pair of them bring 51 and 52
> through Mojave every day.
> "Lines" was dropped in June, 1946.

thanks, I knew the daylight scheme lasted into the 50s, but were they specifically assigned to the daylight or were they running on freights?

According to the information from Robert Church's book "The 4300 4-8-2's, five MT4's were painted in the "Daylight" scheme. They were No's 4350, 4352, 4353, 4361 and 4363. They were used on trains 51-52, the "San Joaquin Daylight". They carried the "Daylight colors" from 1946 to 1951. Another thing to consider is that Southern Pacific changed the lettering from "Southern Pacific Lines" to "Southern Pacific" in 1946 but like any large company it took some time to change the rolling stock to the new lettering so there were situations in which both lettering schemes were seen on the same train. The 4300's pretty much were used as dual-service power when the the GS class 4-8-4's took over the passenger duties. Whether the Mt4's painted in the "Daylight" scheme were used in freight service I can't say but that shouldn't keep you from using the "Daylight" scheme MT4 on a freight train on your layout.

Regards,
John Carroll

Thanks! I couldn't find any info online about how long the MT-4s stayed in the daylight scheme or how long it took to convert the lettering. There doesn't seem to be a ton of info about them online in general. 
Travus 

Although you don't say, it's a good bet that your interest is in the Athearn Genesis HO model. I have one and can state that it is an excellent model in every respect. It runs and pulls well, and is especially impressive at its smoothness when running at very low speed. Mine is DC, not DCC.

The Church book on the series is excellent, full of great photos, history of use, design and construction details, plans and just about everything you might want to know. It is a reference book you will open many times.

Thanks, I probably should have been more specific but yes I was talking about the Athearn model. I'll be sure to look for that book. 

Before being assigned to a revenue passenger train, engines just out of the Sacramento Locomotive Works would be put on a freight for break-in and quality control.  This might be Oakland or Bakersfield, but could be anywhere.  So if you put yours on a freight, tell your critics it is just out of the shop.  (And that is why the paint looks so good.)

My first release Athearn Genesis MT4 without Skyline seems to be a better runner. The Skyline version took some work to run but must say it is running well today. I am unsure if the two were assembled by the same people. Neverthess, Both are great models. If pulling brass, 7 cars is Max. You will need to add weight or liquid traction (Bull Frog Snot)  to wheels for larger consists. Please note, that was my experience with this model. 

Javier Cervantes
Castle Rock , CO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/16 06:44 by superchief73.

Thanks for all the replies. Now I've got a better idea of what I'm going o do. 

I love my Athearn genesis MT4.  I have the DCC version with sound.  It has been a smooth runner right out of the box.  It has great detailing - better than many of my brass engines.
It runs SO much better than brass!  I became frustrated with how finicky my brass steam engines were compared to diesels.  Like the real railroads I had set my steam aside and was exclusively operating diesels.  Then I bought the Athearn MT4.  Needless to say, steam is back!
Now like I said in an earier thread, Athearn should leverage many of the parts used to make the MT and make P8 or P10 Pacifics.
I also wish someone would make a line of Harriman standard steam loco's too.  Considering that it covers a bunch of railroads you would think that making them would be too tempting to pass up.

<side note>As a Conrail fan, I keep revisiting this thread, thinking someone is doing a custom model of a Conrail MT-4 slug, which were made out of RS-11 parts in the late 1970s. :) Then I'm reminded how many SP aficianados there are on TO!</side note>

There is a documented case of a Daylight-painted MT-4 being used in freight service.  On Sept. 8, 1951, an SP carman at Bakersfield took a photo of # 4350 in Daylight paint on the outbound ready track near the Bakersfield roundhouse.  Here is what he wrote for the photo caption:

"[4350] engine called to Oakland 296 miles from Bakersfield. This is a 4-8-2 class. Has 73 inch drivers. This date it is handling the D.O.D. train. This consists of Dodge parts from factory in the east to west assembly plant at San Leandro at present date Sept 8th 1951. Later date engine had to go to Roseville as other power failed. Made round trip 21 hrs 35 mins."

The SP carman didn't  state what type of train # 4350 handled between Oakland and Roseville.  In returning to Bakersfield from Roseville, the engine most likely was on another freight train since no passenger trains ran directly between the two cities.

As for a black-painted MT-4 being coupled with a Daylight-painted MT-4 on a freight train, this scenario seems sort of unlikely (though I won't say it never happened).  Double-headed freight trains in the San Joaquin Valley were probably really rare in the later days of steam (I haven't seen a photo of such) and I doubt  two MT-4s were ever used on the front of freight trains between Bakersfield and Los Angeles during the period that some of them had Daylight paint (cab-aheads or diesels had this task).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/16 14:28 by johnsweetser.