Model Railroading > An SP Pike-Sized Passenger Train

Don't have budget and/or space to model a Cascade, City of San Francisco, Coast Daylight, Golden State, or Sunset Limited?

Check out the photo of SP's San Francisco - Monterey Del Monte in the following thread:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4233620

Excellent!! I have a friend that feels guilty running a couple of passenger cars behind a diesel on his small pike.  I have tried to encourage him, but the pics you shared are REALLY gonna brighten his day!   Thanks!  Mark   <><

Mark 

Tell your friend to google pike sized passenger trains.  The first hit is a 30 page PDF of Model Railroader modeling articles on that very subject.  Your friend will soon learn how prototypical his trains really look.

Larry

To do an exact model of that consist, you'll only be able to use brass passenger cars. The Class 83-L-1 Lounge (listed in the timetable as First Class "Parlor" service) has only been produced by The Coach Yard through the years. There are bargains available if you can find early production in unpainted brass with no interiors. A close stand-in is hard to come by, since most lounge cars don't have the combination window pattern for this car. Walthers smooth-side cars are the best start, since it's a smoothside Pullman-Standard product. It's the little windows for the bar area and Barber Shop that are hard to match. I believe there are laser-cut plastic sides available, if you want to roll your own:

http://unionstationproducts.com/-7580-sp-ps-smooth-side-club-lounge.html

The Chair Car following is also a brass-only, since it's a former fluted and Daylight-painted SP Parlor car demoted to Chair Car service and reskinned by Sacramento Shops in the early 1960s. Two cars were done like this, SP 2242 and SP 2243 (one of those cars was a regular on the 1960s-1971 Del Monte) and they've been produced in brass and fully finished by Union Terminal Imports during the 2000s. They're not easy to find, nor are they cheap ($500-$700) when you can.

An appropriate stand-in would be Athearn's Genesis 77-foot SP Chair Car in GS colors, though streamlined cars of this floor plan were generally not used for coach passengers on Del Monte. And you could augment the consist (and add some switching potential to an operations night) by using a Walthers Gallery Commute bi-level in trail (or two or three, even) which the Del Monte often trailed between San Francisco and San Jose in the 1960s.

Still, a very reasonable way to go, this lovely little train! And if brass is the only way to get the cars, at two cars a non-brass buyer could easily justify the limited luxury expense, since you're saving the expense of having to assemble a 14- to 22-car COSF from $80 plastic cars -- AND a few brass thrown in for good measure!

The Athearn Genesis Torpedo Boat GP9 in Black Widow could be repainted for the power seen in the Roger Puta pictures. Or you could wait patiently for the wheels to turn in Long Beach, since it may be that those Scarlet & Gray Geeps will eventually make production! Other SP passenger Geeps were used on Del Monte, and with the addition of steam generator details a dynamic-brake-equipped Scarlet & Gray Genesis freight-service Geep could be pressed into service as well.

Great idea, though -- this and the Sacramento Daylight from the same era are swell pike-sized trains. Only issue is that it points out how many basic SP passenger cars are surprisingly not available in plastic.

~ BZ

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/17 20:23 by Notch16.

markloos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excellent!! I have a friend that feels guilty
> running a couple of passenger cars behind a diesel
> on his small pike.  I have tried to encourage
> him, but the pics you shared are REALLY gonna
> brighten his day!   Thanks!  Mark   <><

No need to feel guilty.  Does he model a particular railroad?

There are many examples of shorty (1 - 3 cars) passenger train prototypes including:

Amtrak: Arrowhead, Blackhawk, National Limited - Washington section & Pennsylvanian
AT & SF: Grand Canyon
B & O: Shenandoah
BN: American Royal
C & NW: Flambeau 400
CMStP & P: Varsity
D & RGW: Yampa Valley Mail
GN: Cascadian and Trains 3 & 4 (Havre - Great Falls)
NKP: Trains 9 & 10 (St. Louis - Cleveland)
NYC: Train 405 (Boston - Albany)
PC: Buffalo Day Express
WP: Royal Gorge




 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/17 20:37 by RuleG.

Small Consists are the best.My Scoot Consist from last month. https://www.facebook.com/722907514475993/videos/937028659730543/

 

Javier Cervantes
Castle Rock , CO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/17 22:07 by superchief73.

Also, SP Sacramento Daylight.

Regards, Jim Evans

~ BZ, or may I call you ~?

How would one go about acquiring an HO Scale version of the Sacramento Daylight?

Thanks In Advance of your much anticipated response!

Larry

In the last days before Amtrak many lines ran pike-sized trains - see the latest Trainline, magazine of the SP Historical and Technical Society....

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> markloos Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Excellent!! I have a friend that feels guilty
> > running a couple of passenger cars behind a
> diesel
> > on his small pike.  I have tried to encourage
> > him, but the pics you shared are REALLY gonna
> > brighten his day!   Thanks!  Mark   <><
>
> No need to feel guilty.  Does he model a
> particular railroad?
>
> There are many examples of shorty (1 - 3 cars)
> passenger train prototypes including:
>
> Amtrak: Arrowhead, Blackhawk, National Limited -
> Washington section & Pennsylvanian
> AT & SF: Grand Canyon
> B & O: Shenandoah
> BN: American Royal
> C & NW: Flambeau 400
> CMStP & P: Varsity
> D & RGW: Yampa Valley Mail
> GN: Cascadian and Trains 3 & 4 (Havre - Great
> Falls)
> NKP: Trains 9 & 10 (St. Louis - Cleveland)
> NYC: Train 405 (Boston - Albany)
> PC: Buffalo Day Express
> WP: Royal Gorge
>
>
>
>
>  
Don't forget the "Hassayampa Chief"....the Phoenix to Williams Junction Santa Fe trains (42&47) that operated with short, but interesting consits.
Pre November 1967:
Power: passenger GP7 or GP9's, F3, F7, A & B unit consist
baggage and express car(s). Walthers streamlined ATSF baggage, or brass heavyweight. An occasional express car would be handled.
chair: Phoenix to Williams Junction. Walthers 46 seat coach, or Santa Fe heavyweight
chair: Phoenix to Williams Junction. Walthers 46 seat coach
lounge diner: Phoenix to Williams Junction. TCY ATSF 1396 or 1397. Soho made a close match. OR, make from scratch. (see Union Station Products website)
4-4-2 Pullman: (November to April) Phoenix to Chicago. Walthers REGAL or pre-war 4-4-2
6-6-4 Pullman: (April to November) Phoenix to Williams Junction. Walthers 6-6-4

November 1967 to April 1969:

Power: GP7 or GP9, F3, F7, A &B unit consist
Baggage
Chair car



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/17 11:21 by ATSF3751.

> How would one go about acquiring an HO Scale
> version of the Sacramento Daylight?

Presuming a 1960-1971 interest, it can be a challenge for absolute authenticity, but not too bad for reasonable representation.

The Sacramento Daylight, Trains 53-54 ran from Sacramento out to Lathrop (Junction) to meet Trains 51 and 52, the San Joaquin Daylight. A single steam-boiler-equipped GP9 or SD7/9 was the usual power assignment. A Combination Chair-Baggage car was used for "shorts" between Sacramento and points served only by 53-54, I believe. Until well into 1967 the train also carried a through car that it would switch into Train 52 eastbound (for LA) and pick up from Train 51 westbound (from LA). After that through service ended, the passenger transfer was across the platform, and the 53-54 consist simply reflected how many seats were going to be needed between Sacramento and Lathrop.

Towards the very end (before Amtrak began on May 1, 1971) I believe the train lost its Combine in favor of an Economy Baggage car for a short time.

Most common choices for power:
Black Widow GP9 (numbered 5893 until 1966, then 3422 until 1968). Wing stripes on both ends, because the unit had dual controls for bi-directional operation.
Black Widow SD7 (numbered 2741; fill-in during 1967)
Scarlet & Gray GP9 (numbered 3010) after 1968. Same unit as 5893/3422 in Black Widow, repainted and renumbered. Dynamic brakes, wing stripes on both ends, bolted handrail stanchions, M5 horn, tall exhaust stack on steam generator hatch. (Same details as Black Widow.)

Models of the actual cars are most accurately found in HO in discontinued brass, all of which turn up for sale from time to time. S. Soho cars are quite old, and would need much finishing, new trucks, etc.

Best choices for cars:
Rebuilt "Daylight" Chair Baggage: Union Terminal Imports (fully-finished brass, HO); BLI or MTH, HO (fluted siding is not correct for period, will also require repainting to Simulated Stainless Steel with Scarlet Stripe and Lark Dark Gray underbody and trucks); S. Soho (unpainted brass, HO).
"Shasta" type high-windowed Chair Car: Union Terminal Imports (brass, HO); The Coach Yard (unpainted brass, HO); Centralia Car Shops (fully finished, N scale).
Single Unit Chair Car: Athearn Genesis HO 77-foot Chair Car, GS Scheme; Union Terminal Imports (fully-finished brass, HO); S. Soho (unpainted brass, HO).
Articulated Chair Car: Union Terminal Imports (brass, HO): S. Soho (unpainted brass, HO).
"Shasta" type high-windowed Daylight-painted Chair Car: Challenger Imports (brass, fully finished, HO) for early 1960s through car.

The easiest route in HO scale plastic equipment would be to run a Genesis Black Widow or Scarlet & Gray GP9 with steam generator details added; a BLI or Walthers SD in Scarlet & Gray could serve as a substitute with credibility. A single Athearn Chair Car in SSS (silver) with Scarlet Stripe would signify a 1960s Sacramento Dayight, also with reasonable credibility -- although that Chair Baggage Combine was a signature car for the train.

Note that the train seemed to run with the Geep's cab rearward when coupled to the baggage end of the CB, trailing a single or articulated Chair Car to the connection with 51-52. In the other direction, the Geep would simply run around so it was running with the cab end forward and the Chair Baggage trailing, baggage end last. 

Finally, after the train would switch a car onto 52, it would then proceed to Tracy to lay over. Then it would head back to Lathrop to pick up the car from 51. Others can detail this operation much more accurately, but the premise is that one Geep or SD with passenger steam heat boiler could run from one to three Silver cars with Scarlet stripe, depending on where in the run you saw the train. And a single GP9 with a single Athearn Genesis Chair Car would be perfectly credible as far as accomodations and power type.

For steam operations, everything changes, depending on where you start (1946) or convert to diesel (1956 or so). The service started with a Daylight-painted 4-4-2, then graduated to black 4-6-2s bumped from other service. SP 3176 was a Daylight-painted "Harriman" style Combine which operated until about 1959. Heavyweight cars in Dark Olive could be pressed into service for local Sacramento tickets. A Daylight Coffee Shop didn't last for long, during the 4-4-2 days with streamlined Daylight cars and the 3176 Combine. A credible train from that era could be a black 4-6-2 with Skyline casing, a Daylight-painted Chair-Baggage Combine, and an Articulated Chair Car in Daylight colors (BLI or MTH in HO; Kato in N.) Generally, the car or cars sent on to 51-52 (and picked up again) matched the train -- Daylight in Daylight days, SSS and Scarlet Stripe in those days. Although for a summer season in 1967, one lone Articulated Chair Car was shuttled back and forth to Sacramento, and forwarded on an otherwise SSS and Scarlet 51-52, and may have been the last fluted prewar Daylight car in regular operation.

The SP was nothing if not consistently inconsistent, within hard and fast rules it broke regularly!

How's that for the simple answer? :-)  Welcome are anyone's additions, corrections, or suggestions.

~ BZ



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/17 17:56 by Notch16.

markloos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excellent!! I have a friend that feels guilty
> running a couple of passenger cars behind a diesel
> on his small pike.  I have tried to encourage
> him, but the pics you shared are REALLY gonna
> brighten his day!   Thanks!  Mark   <><

Mark,

  I'd like to visit his pike. I'll be back in Henderson in about three weeks.

Regards,
Ed

I have assembled a consist of the Oakland section of the Coast Daylight, trains #250 and 255 from the mid 50's.

Used the following equipment -

Athearn MT-4 4367
Walthers 70 foot arched roof baggage car in grey
Broadway Lmited Coast Daylght Postwar Articulated Chair car
Broadway Lmited Coast Daylght Postwar Chair car

It makes a nice train that gives the flavor of the preiod service and doesn't break the bank.
 

That's a nice consist. Also a great short train to model, steam or diesel. A single Daylight Alco PA was common power, I believe.

Short trains, easy and satisfying to do in plastic for not a lot of cash. And they allow a judicious investment in brass without completely changing the U.S. balance of trade!

~ BZ

 

I have a single Hobbytown PA that may get some attention to use as alternate motive power. Good opportunity for all of the details to be added.

In addition to the Sacramento Daylight and Oakland section of the Coast Daylight, other pike sized SP trains included:

El Dorado. A Model Railroader article about pike-sized passenger trains included this train.  The photo accompanying the article shows a Daylight-painted PA and Harriman coach.

Overland. Running between Ogden and Oakland, the Overland, in its latter years, must have had one of the shortest consists (3 to 4 cars) in relation to the distance traveled.  The Overland must have also been one of the shortest train consists in the US to have a sleeper.  It also sported a PA.

Redwood.  Before SP #10, an RDC (the ultimate pike-sized train), was assigned to Redwood service, an SD7 pulling 3 or 4 cars comprised this train.

SP's San Francisco - San Jose commute services also provided plenty of prototypes for shorty passenger trains.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/17 17:52 by RuleG.

Thanks to ~ (along with everyone else of course) for all of the great in depth replies.

Larry