Passenger Trains > Disgusting Amtrak potable water rumor

Before I tell this news tidbit I want to offer the disclaimer that I haven't seen this new setup in person so I cannot vouch if this is an exaggeration. I am hoping someone can confirm this setup.

Recently I had an interesting conversation with someone in the mechanical department at Amtrak in Los Angeles who told me that on S&I Track 1, (this is where trains are serviced) Amtrak installed a new sewage pumping system for emptying passenger cars in an effort to limit the use of honey wagons (poop trucks). What he/she told me was sewage pump hoses are now situated in the same boxes where the fresh water valve and hose are. This person told me of one instance they observed recently where the sewage hose was leaking stuff as it was placed in the box and this stuff touched the hose used to place fresh water in the cars. She added it is impossible to keep these two system separate when they are intermingled in the same compartment and what she observed happens regularly.

I am hoping someone can get a picture of this arrangement and confirm or deny if this is the case as I find it hard to believe that any entity would install such a ridiculous setup where it is this easy to introduce raw sewage into a potable water system. Once again don't take this for gospel as I have not seen this arrangement, but maybe someone in the know can confirm or deny the alleged setup.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

Wow if that's true someone needs to bring the hammer of the appropriate sanitation inspectors down on them but fast.

Can't believe the FDA (Amtrak is under their authority) or local zoning or whatever would let it happen

I doubt the story very much, like someone said before the FDA or health inspectors would be shutting place down and any and all cars served.
The dump hoses don't fit in boxes as its a 4" thick wall hose with heavy connectors and about 8 to 10 feet long, the shortest rollup would be in exces of 4 foot diameter.

webmaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before I tell this news tidbit I want to offer the
> disclaimer that I haven't seen this new setup in
> person so I cannot vouch if this is an
> exaggeration. I am hoping someone can confirm this
> setup.
>
> Recently I had an interesting conversation with
> someone in the mechanical department at Amtrak in
> Los Angeles who told me that on S&I Track 1, (this
> is where trains are serviced) Amtrak installed a
> new sewage pumping system for emptying passenger
> cars in an effort to limit the use of honey wagons
> (poop trucks). What he/she told me was sewage pump
> hoses are now situated in the same boxes where the
> fresh water valve and hose are. This person told
> me of one instance they observed recently where
> the sewage hose was leaking stuff as it was placed
> in the box and this stuff touched the hose used to
> place fresh water in the cars. She added it is
> impossible to keep these two system separate when
> they are intermingled in the same compartment and
> what she observed happens regularly.
>
> I am hoping someone can get a picture of this
> arrangement and confirm or deny if this is the
> case as I find it hard to believe that any entity
> would install such a ridiculous setup where it is
> this easy to introduce raw sewage into a potable
> water system. Once again don't take this for
> gospel as I have not seen this arrangement, but
> maybe someone in the know can confirm or deny the
> alleged setup.

Todd you should know better. This is how rumors start and pretty soon they become fact even though they may or may not be true. You should have verified it one way or the other then post it in my opinion. After all you are the webmaster.

Todd I think you should report this to LA Health department doing this stuff. Someone should go down to Yard from the Health people check this out.

True or not, when traveling by train, plane, bus or auto, taking one's own drinking water, tap or de$$$igner brand, will occasionally save one a lot of unplanned trips while aboard the conveyance.

Lurch_in_ABQ Wrote:
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> True or not, when traveling by train, plane, bus
> or auto, taking one's own drinking water, tap or
> de$$$igner brand, will occasionally save one a lot
> of unplanned trips while aboard the conveyance.

You haven't been flying lately! You don't take your OWN bottled water on a plane. You have to buy it inside the airport!

Just got back from a Starlight trip last night. My main beverage (other than beer) was potable water from the coaches. Considering the amount of water I consumed on that trip, I'd say, if the rumors were true, I wouldn't be writing this.

Amtrak Los Angeles has one of the hardest working public health guys in the system. The potable water is something that is watched very carefully. Potable and non potable water stanchions are not even near each other for this reason. There are very strict regulations that are followed and checked regularly. I am not saying that there is not room for improvement, but the standards are fairly high. I have never heard of entire trains coming down with an illness like cruise ships often do. With all due respect as a webmaster who frequently contracts with Amtrak, this is a careless post.

The sewage connection on Superliners is located on the "A" end of the cars. It sits under the frame of the car, it usually has a cap that fits over it after the sewage is pumped. The potable water is connected to a pipe located on the inside of a box which has a spring loaded door to keep dirt out while on the road. When a car is to be watered, first you turn a valve that bleeds the air out of the system, then you turn on the water so it washes off the connection pipe, then you push the hose on and wait for the water to over flow and then you turn the valve back in to normal and this puts the air into the car to raise the pressure on the car. Anybody that says that the waste and potable pipes are close together must have been a A. a car cleaner, B. new employee, C. On something.

beaumonthill Wrote:
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> Anybody that says that the waste and
> potable pipes are close together must have been a
> A. a car cleaner, B. new employee, C. On
> something.


You need to read the post a little closer. This is referring to where the connections at the ground terminal are kept.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

> You haven't been flying lately! You don't take your OWN bottled water on a plane. You have to buy it inside the airport!

You should take an empty water bottle and fill it at the drinking fountain. Saves about 3 bucks.

I am certainly not a mechanical engineer so I hardly understand the true concern, however I think somebody should contact Amtrak Management such as the Southwest Divison or Corporate HQ to report this kind of thing. Even if it is only a possibility it is still rather disgusting to think you are brushing your teeth in...

I ran a trip with the Pony on May 19th and saw no such thing. The Waste Disposal crew still has their truck. No way you can pump a train from fixed locations. You would have to have several long waste hoses and nobody wants that. The disposal guys are very careful in performance of their duties.

I hope we never see more postings of this type, without digging further, otherwise it becomes a "Rag newspaper".

I spoke to PX320 and he was not remarking on S&I track 1. I am hoping someone can confirm or deny the arrangement on this particular track. I am not trying to pass this off as fact, thus all the disclaimers in my original posting. I am trying to determine if it is true or false.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

Well, this is /not/ a rumor: on several occasions a few years ago I saw the guys who drive the honey wagons handle drinking water boxes and bags of ice wearing the same gloves as they use for dumping the retention tanks. They don't do it anymore.

abn1 Wrote:
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> > You haven't been flying lately! You don't take
> your OWN bottled water on a plane. You have to buy
> it inside the airport!
>
> You should take an empty water bottle and fill it
> at the drinking fountain. Saves about 3 bucks.

The TSA doesn't allow that either. Liquids are limited to a 3.4 ounce per container, and it doesn't matter if the container is full or empty. Although in theory, you could fill up a bunch of 3oz shampoo bottles with water, just as long as they all fit inside a quart size ziplock bag for inspection.

benthere Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> abn1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > You haven't been flying lately! You don't
> take
> > your OWN bottled water on a plane. You have to
> buy
> > it inside the airport!
> >
> > You should take an empty water bottle and fill
> it
> > at the drinking fountain. Saves about 3 bucks.
>
> The TSA doesn't allow that either. Liquids are
> limited to a 3.4 ounce per container, and it
> doesn't matter if the container is full or empty.
> Although in theory, you could fill up a bunch of
> 3oz shampoo bottles with water, just as long as
> they all fit inside a quart size ziplock bag for
> inspection.

As long as you take the empty bottle through the checkpoint and then fill the bottle in the secure area, there is no TSA issue with filling a bottle from a water fountain and taking it on a flight.