Passenger Trains > Amtrak California Superliner on #712(21)

For those who want to get a look at one of the repainted Amtrak California Superliners the AMTK34953 will be making the San Joaquin 712/717 turn today. The car is right behind the power as seen at Emeryville this morning in the three shots below, provided she ever gets out of town. The train is seriously delayed as the result of a westbound UP freight striking a trespasser at Richmond at approx. 07:30. Capitol #720 stopped ahead at Berkeley--any updates welcome(don't believe Julie).

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For those going the entire distance, seats in that car are gonna be one hot commodity!!

This is more evidence of the problem with LDTs....Amtrak decides to make these cars available to CA for corridor service, this denying the equipment to its own services...merely because Caltrans paid Amtrak to do so and Amtrak lacked funds to repair the Superliners on its own. There's quite a bit of irony there.

Kudos do need to be extended to Caltrans for taking advantage of this opportunity to secure additional rolling stock for the corridor services prior to the time that the new order of California cars is completed, which is funded, BTW, in the proposed California State Budget from Prop. 1B bond funds approved last November. Somebody was on the ball!

I agree with reindeerflame.

Should Amtrak haul out an Amfleet train set to free up the Superliners it is now supplying to California corridor services, as a result of car shortages? Instead Superliners are being used and reducing the availability of cars that could be used for long distance service.

For example, the Cardinal should be returned to a Superliner equipped train (terminating in Washington DC). It was only relegated to single level equipment as a result of Supererliner shortages due to a series of wrecks in 2001/2002. Currently, the long distance eastern trains could use more single level long distance equipment freed up (i.e. coaches and Viewliners).

This is while 90 Amfleet-1 cars rot away in New Orleans and Bear,DE.

Seems Amtrak can make available, or is paid to make available, LD cars for a Corridor train so it can deny revenue and deny deficit reduction to long hauls (or abuse yield-management pricing by keeping inventory at record lows), making the obsolescence of LD trains a self fulfilling prophecy.

If they would round up 3 SL coaches, one of which is pictured above, the CHI-MSP car line could be extended to the west coast, and they would fill it the day it is put on the res system.

They don't want to.

That situation is not unique. This is like running Amfleet-2 as Business Class on the Carolinian, (where a 60 seat ex-Metroliner car would do), or not releasing 3 LD Horizons (once used on the Three Rivers), from midwest corridors for a 5th coach on the LSL.

Amtrak also has victiom mentality. Crap like that allows them to milk it.

jp1822 Wrote:
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> Should Amtrak haul out an Amfleet train set to
> free up the Superliners it is now supplying to
> California corridor services, as a result of car
> shortages? Instead Superliners are being used and
> reducing the availability of cars that could be
> used for long distance service.

There already is an Amfleet set working the Surfliners right now.

Also, Amtrak has used Superliners on the California trains regularly for 12 years now. This isn't anything new.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> This is while 90 Amfleet-1 cars rot away in New
> Orleans and Bear,DE.
>
> Seems Amtrak can make available, or is paid to
> make available, LD cars for a Corridor train so it
> can deny revenue and deny deficit reduction to
> long hauls (or abuse yield-management pricing by
> keeping inventory at record lows), making the
> obsolescence of LD trains a self fulfilling
> prophecy.

As I recall, the Amfleets stored at Bear, DE are not equipped for push-pull service, which means they can't operate on the Surfliners/San Joaquins/Capitols.

Another thing to keep in mind is that single-level trainsets require another 1-2 assistant conductors to open the doors at station stops. The cars still take longer to load/unload passengers, adding 10-15 minutes to the schedule from endpoint-to-endpoint.

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with reindeerflame.
>
> Should Amtrak haul out an Amfleet train set to
> free up the Superliners it is now supplying to
> California corridor services, as a result of car
> shortages? Instead Superliners are being used and
> reducing the availability of cars that could be
> used for long distance service.

LOL, do the numbers and based on the downturn in Long Distance trvel passenger numbers there should not be a shortage in Superliner cars natonwide. But thanks to lot's of derailment/wreck damage, a large chunk of both Superlienrs and California/Surfliner Cars here out West are out of service. Outside of the NE Corridor, the WestCoast Capitol Corridor and Surfliner routes are seeing record passenger numbers each year meaning more $$$ for Amtrak and the State of CA. So logically you send Superliners or the single set Amfleet/Horizon/Dome cars to the Left Coast to keep those record revenue $$$ coming in. Just my 2 cents on what makes perfect sense for Amtrak from a revenue/passenger car supply standpoint...

< based on the downturn in Long Distance travel passenger numbers >

There is no general downturn. Obviously when the CZ and CS have zero OTP for several years, their ridership goes down. Cut consists elsewhere, and their ridership goes down. We can cut California corridor consists one coach a piece, abuse yield management rather than increase state operating subsidies, and watch their ridership nosedive too.

<As I recall, the Amfleets stored at Bear, DE are not equipped for push-pull service, which means they can't operate on the Surfliners/San Joaquins/Capitols.>

Think out of the box. None of them were trainlined to start with. They are easily modified, as were several Superliners. We can also place overhauled Bear cars in the east, and excess push-pull ones or more Horizons out west.

Superliners are not currently in short supply, which is why there are so many available to work Western Corridors. I think Everybody is winning (including the passengers) in this agreement.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> We can cut California
> corridor consists one coach a piece, abuse yield
> management rather than increase state operating
> subsidies, and watch their ridership nosedive
> too.


We've been there and done that. To meet increased ridership, record daily roundtrip trains and the shortage in equipment (more like no new cars on order for at least another 2-3 years) pretty much ALL Capitols and San Joaquins have been reduced from what used to be the norm 5-car set to now 4-car sets. Ever see a packed commuter car stuffed with families, college students and business commuters with standing room only? I have.

Our voters in this state have recently passed the necessary public transit funding bills to support more equipment (passenger cars and eventually more new locos), line upgrades, station additions, etc. It's taken a while for the general public to really get behind intercity Heavy Rail public transit but the majority of voters are finally supportive. There is only so much our over congested Bay Area and Southern California freeway systems can take before complete meltdown.

And LOL a second time, c'mon really, does it make sense to introduce more single level Horizons or Amfleet cars in a double level commuter car service? The Superliners mate up PERFECTLY with the Surfliner and Cali Cars and aside from their spaced out seating and inability to open up the single doors for passenger loading at station stops, the cars are a PERFECT fit for this West Coast service. The big problem over hte last 6 or so years has been Washington hosing Amteak on the necessary funds to get all of the out of service Superliners in Beech Grove back into operational service. Forget Amtrak getting new cars but from the last tally of O.O.S. cars sitting at B.G. I know there is enough equipment (if fixed) to spread around the nation.

Jannfo, if Superliners are not in short supply, then why is train 3/4, 1/ 2, 29/30 selling out nearly each trip in coach.

1/2 3/4 are short one coach and one sleeper, from the consits of just two years ago.
Sleepers are selling out on every Superliner train.

One would think that moving 2 supers to the Capitols, 3 to the Seattle Talgo run, that the world was coming to an end, judging from these postings.


The long term agreement with Amtrak was that four bag-coaches would be available to the Sufliner
fleet. Its been a while since I noted all four running.

Yes, the entire fleet of Amtrak cars & locomoitves need more loving care to keep passengers happy, and obtain more revenue but not until the bean counters and maintance get the act together.

Corridors are no better off, from a lack of equipment and locomotive failures. Its all the
present nature of Amtrak and for that matter much of industry and govenment in the US.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Think out of the box. None of them were trainlined
> to start with. They are easily modified, as were
> several Superliners. We can also place overhauled
> Bear cars in the east, and excess push-pull ones
> or more Horizons out west.

You're right, they could spend the money and equip some more Amfleets for push-pull service. Aside from this relatively minor issue, the point I was getting at earlier is that Amfleet/Horizon cars don't work well on the California trains. Station stops take a lot longer and it requires more manpower to work these trains.

When Superliner cars do get used, it's rarely more than one coach at a time (if at all).

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is while 90 Amfleet-1 cars rot away in New
> Orleans and Bear,DE.
>
> Seems Amtrak can make available, or is paid to
> make available, LD cars for a Corridor train so it
> can deny revenue and deny deficit reduction to
> long hauls (or abuse yield-management pricing by
> keeping inventory at record lows), making the
> obsolescence of LD trains a self fulfilling
> prophecy.
>
> If they would round up 3 SL coaches, one of which
> is pictured above, the CHI-MSP car line could be
> extended to the west coast, and they would fill it
> the day it is put on the res system.
>
> They don't want to.
>
> That situation is not unique. This is like running
> Amfleet-2 as Business Class on the Carolinian,
> (where a 60 seat ex-Metroliner car would do), or
> not releasing 3 LD Horizons (once used on the
> Three Rivers), from midwest corridors for a 5th
> coach on the LSL.
>
> Amtrak also has victiom mentality. Crap like that
> allows them to milk it.


But if Amtrak thinks this kind of deal and deployment makes the most financial and practical sense, doesn't that say a lot about the economics of long distance trains? I don't see Montana, Minnesota, or the U.S. government stepping in here to upgrade/repair this equipment for the LDTs. The LDT business model doesn't work very well because Amtrak does not have a funding partner, unlike the corridor services. That's all that counts.

Well worn soapboxing aside, I'm just surprised they haven't thought to charge extra-fare for the more comfortable Superliner seating...

One could call it Business Class!

mundo Wrote:
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> One could call it Business Class!

100% agree, The surfliners have it. I thought the Captiols and Joaquins were to have that option.
When I was working the valley in 94-95 we did have the "custom class" on 712-717, but it died.

BTW, I was on 724 today, arrived Sac a little over an hour late. 720 turned at Richmond and went
back south to San Jose. Lastly, is this a "new" number series for these rebuilds? Or is this
the original # just transferred to the California Pool?

Thanks, car did look sharp from the outside.

TopCat

I had heard that Business Class was deemed to be financially impractical on the northern CA corridors when everything was originally set up. That may have changed with the recent increase in ridership, at Least on the Capitols. That may be something held off for the new order of cars if that ever happens.

TopCat Wrote:
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> Lastly, is this a "new"
> number series for these rebuilds? Or is this
> the original # just transferred to the California
> Pool?
>
> Thanks, car did look sharp from the outside.
>
> TopCat

Glad it looked sharp, we're praying for two or three of these that can be run on 799/798. As far as the numbering goes, the cars are still Amtrak-owned and use their original numbers except the 3rd digit was changed to a 9 to reflect the change in service pools (34053 to 34953). Caltrans is essentially leasing them for six years at the same cost of the necessary repairs.

ry Wrote:
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> For those going the entire distance, seats in that
> car are gonna be one hot commodity!!

When riding the Capitols, I actually prefer the second generation California cars over the Superliner cars that have been used. Sure they dont have as much legroom as the Superliners but the seats are just as comfortable plus the Superliner are dark, worn and dirty and always seem to have an oder to them. The California cars are bright and clean inside and the club seating with tables is great for using a laptop or doing some other kind of work.