Passenger Trains > Customs & train 48

Have heard on the scanner twice this week that 48 would
be delayed at Erie, PA while Customs Officials boarded
the train and made checks.

Can anyone provide info as to what's happening, and why?

A conductor explained to me that this is job protection for customs agents. The last time I was on 48 they boarded (and delayed the train) at Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse, for a total delay of close to an hour. Apparently they're now doing it at Erie also. No one could explain to me why a full-train search at one station (most sensibly Buffalo, which is a smoking stop anyway), combined with watching those getting on at later stations, wouldn't be sufficient to find anyone who was present illegally or who might be smuggling something. Going over the same equipment and same people again and again seems to have little purpose.

BobB Wrote:
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> A conductor explained to me that this is job
> protection for customs agents. The last time I
> was on 48 they boarded (and delayed the train) at
> Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse, for a total
> delay of close to an hour. Apparently they're now
> doing it at Erie also. No one could explain to me
> why a full-train search at one station (most
> sensibly Buffalo, which is a smoking stop anyway),
> combined with watching those getting on at later
> stations, wouldn't be sufficient to find anyone
> who was present illegally or who might be
> smuggling something. Going over the same
> equipment and same people again and again seems to
> have little purpose.

===============================================

It may seem to have little purpose unless you are running a government bureaucracy. As the prior message said, it's job protection. As a bureaucrat you always want the biggest staff, the heaviest apparent workload, the largest budget possible. That's how bureaucrats are judged, and judge themselves, in the Government wasteland; and it is how bureaucrats justify what they beg for (generally with a hefty increase) in the next budget.

US Customs & Border Protection is a part of the Department of Homeland Security, the biggest and most intrusive bureaucracy that the Government has created in decades.

Trains 48/49 do not cross the USA - Canada international border.

What are they looking for, Canadian boat people crossing Lake Erie and washing up on the shores of Ohio and Pennsylvania?

Jack_Deasy Wrote:
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> Trains 48/49 do not cross the USA - Canada
> international border.
>
> What are they looking for, Canadian boat people
> crossing Lake Erie and washing up on the shores of
> Ohio and Pennsylvania?

The US Border Patrol frequently sets up checkpoints well within the geographical borders of the US. One I have seen on a number of occasions is at MP 100 on I87, the Adirondack Northway, about 75 miles south of the border.

Ray

The former TexMex is inspected at Hebronville TX, thats about halfway between Laredo and Corpus Christi. That is in additon to the inspection of everything that comes across the international bridge at Laredo.

One reason for the moving inspections is to frustrate those that are engaged in illegal acticvity. You can't be predictable.

And while there is a drug war going on in S. Texas, you can bet that the crazies are in those Canadian human anthills in Toronto...stepping into my flame proof suit.

Customs and immigration officials, under the Homeland Insecurity Asdministration, have a range of jurisdiction of 100 miles from a border - which happens to be in the middle of Lake Erie and Ontario. So, in fact, they could stop 48 & 49 at Bryan, Toledo, Sandusky, Elyria, Cleveland, Erie,Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse. Interesting that they leave the train headed for Washington alone and don't hassle it at Toledo or Cleveland.

And that they don't seem to do anything which would involve working at night. I suspect that if 48 went back to its old schedule, with Buffalo in the wee hours, the train would not be bothered there either (which may explain why 49 is not bothered).

Yes, it is all about justification of over-staffing. It is also an attempt to intimidate people and even scare a few run-of-the-mill Americans into thinking there is a great danger lurking. (Have they checked under every bed along the route? - might be a communist hiding!)

And I have been told that this is classism at work - the agents only check out the coaches, and do not do a room-by-room search of the sleepers. So, be white, or be well-dressed, or be in a sleeper and all that will happen will be you will be delayed. But be less-than-Aryan, or be of lesser means, or ride in a coach, and you may hear "You vill show me your paper!" Hassle the usual suspects while playing cozy with Saudi Arabia whence came the real 9/11 attackers.

We had a Hispanic/American lady with a baby who was crying cause they targeted her. Of course, they found nothing on her, but the drug sniffing dog got a few others.Gotta love Alburquirky

RevRandy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Customs and immigration officials, under the
> Homeland Insecurity Asdministration, have a range
> of jurisdiction of 100 miles from a border - which
> happens to be in the middle of Lake Erie and
> Ontario. So, in fact, they could stop 48 & 49 at
> Bryan, Toledo, Sandusky, Elyria, Cleveland,
> Erie,Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse.
> Interesting that they leave the train headed for
> Washington alone and don't hassle it at Toledo or
> Cleveland.
>
> And that they don't seem to do anything which
> would involve working at night. I suspect that if
> 48 went back to its old schedule, with Buffalo in
> the wee hours, the train would not be bothered
> there either (which may explain why 49 is not
> bothered).
>
> Yes, it is all about justification of
> over-staffing. It is also an attempt to
> intimidate people and even scare a few
> run-of-the-mill Americans into thinking there is a
> great danger lurking. (Have they checked under
> every bed along the route? - might be a communist
> hiding!)
>
> And I have been told that this is classism at work
> - the agents only check out the coaches, and do
> not do a room-by-room search of the sleepers. So,
> be white, or be well-dressed, or be in a sleeper
> and all that will happen will be you will be
> delayed. But be less-than-Aryan, or be of lesser
> means, or ride in a coach, and you may hear "You
> vill show me your paper!" Hassle the usual
> suspects while playing cozy with Saudi Arabia
> whence came the real 9/11 attackers.

When I was on 49 in May, we were stopped at Rochester, and a border patrol agent came on board. He didn't take anyone off though.

I can recall riding coach on The Maple Leaf, Amtrak train # 63, from TWO to NYP in early August 1999. The USA Immigration checks at Niagara Falls NY were quite thorough. Using another Indian passenger as a translater, they latched on to a Sikh "holy man", with valid Indian passport and USA visa, who had no visible means of support other than expected contributions from the faithful at a Sikh temple in New York City who would be grateful for his wise preaching. The Immigration officer decided the visiting Sikh could have 45 days in the USA and then it would be time for him to leave the country.

As for me, having both a valid US passport and a US Navy id card in hand, I rated about only 30 seconds worth of their attention.

Someone in uniform (Customs agent? FDA agent?) came thru with a shopping bag and collected all fresh fruit and vegetables that were not purchased in the USA ... that is, they were purchased in Canada. All of this produce was confiscated. I had never seen this done before.

Since 2000, I have crossed the border several times on private car MOUNT VERNON, twice on the Maple Leaf and four times on The Adirondack. With an inventory of about $1,000 in spirits and an assortment of meat, poultry, dairy, fruit and vegetables from the "other" country on the car, I have never had a problem with either Canada or USA Customs or Agriculture/Food agents. Knock twice on 1950 vintage shot welded stainless steel!

Every time that I've gone through El Paso, Border Patrol has come through the train to look for illegals. One of the times they actually removed three of them who had just sat down accross the aisle from us.

These are likely the same knuckleheads that were assigned for Rochester - Toronto Fast Ferry, now with nothing to do but disrupt interstate commerce.

Jack_Deasy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since 2000, I have crossed the border several
> times on private car MOUNT VERNON, twice on the
> Maple Leaf and four times on The Adirondack. With
> an inventory of about $1,000 in spirits and an
> assortment of meat, poultry, dairy, fruit and
> vegetables from the "other" country on the car, I
> have never had a problem with either Canada or USA
> Customs or Agriculture/Food agents. Knock twice
> on 1950 vintage shot welded stainless steel!

Consider yourself lucky! What the US customs inspectors actually enforce are Department of Agriculture regulations which are frequently very difficult to figure out (plus, with various scares like Mad Cow disease, they can be something of a moving target).

When I go camping in the Adirondacks, I generally expect to have to stop at a supermarket in Malone, NY, to replenish what has been confiscated. It has never twice been the same food item.

Ray

Ray_Murphy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jack_Deasy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Since 2000, I have crossed the border several
> > times on private car MOUNT VERNON, twice on the
> > Maple Leaf and four times on The Adirondack.
> With
> > an inventory of about $1,000 in spirits and an
> > assortment of meat, poultry, dairy, fruit and
> > vegetables from the "other" country on the car,
> I
> > have never had a problem with either Canada or
> USA
> > Customs or Agriculture/Food agents. Knock
> twice
> > on 1950 vintage shot welded stainless steel!
>
> Consider yourself lucky! What the US customs
> inspectors actually enforce are Department of
> Agriculture regulations which are frequently very
> difficult to figure out (plus, with various scares
> like Mad Cow disease, they can be something of a
> moving target).
>
> When I go camping in the Adirondacks, I generally
> expect to have to stop at a supermarket in Malone,
> NY, to replenish what has been confiscated. It has
> never twice been the same food item.
>
> Ray

The intensity of ag searches seems to vary immensely, and the level of concern is often different. I wouldn't be surprised if the intensity is a direct function of the most recent URGENT messages read by the inspector.

Jack_Deasy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> As for me, having both a valid US passport and a
> US Navy id card in hand, I rated about only 30
> seconds worth of their attention.
>
> Someone in uniform (Customs agent? FDA agent?)
> came thru with a shopping bag and collected all
> fresh fruit and vegetables that were not purchased
> in the USA ... that is, they were purchased in
> Canada. All of this produce was confiscated. I
> had never seen this done before.

Depending on staffing, the California Dept. of Food and Ag routinely inspects at stations inside the state borders and confiscates fruit and veggies bought elsewhere. They mainly target cars with out of state license plates. This is nothing new. If you show up with a bag of oranges bought in Colorado (for example, not just singling out Colorado), you can either sit in your car and eat them or give them to the inspectors to destroy. Hawaii is just as stringent as to what can and cannot be brought in and will search you at the airport for foods---------at least they used to, long before 9/11 made searches more broad.
C.
>
>

Carol Voss
Salinas, CA

CarolVoss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Depending on staffing, the California Dept. of
> Food and Ag routinely inspects at stations inside
> the state borders and confiscates fruit and
> veggies bought elsewhere. They mainly target cars
> with out of state license plates. This is nothing
> new. If you show up with a bag of oranges bought
> in Colorado (for example, not just singling out
> Colorado), you can either sit in your car and eat
> them or give them to the inspectors to destroy.
> Hawaii is just as stringent as to what can and
> cannot be brought in and will search you at the
> airport for foods---------at least they used to,
> long before 9/11 made searches more broad.
> C.
> >
THat was before Gray Davis did his thing. I have been making the trek from LA - Phoenix and back for several years now.

The Checkpoint on I-10 at Blythe has has not stopped a car in years. They have semi-permanent signs that say "No Inspection Today."

They do stop trucks.

Looking forward to the final trek by Nov 1.

Jack_Deasy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since 2000, I have crossed the border several
> times on private car........

Prior to then I always expected a more thorough grilling from U.S.Customs than Canadian Customs. Recently the Canadians have it in for drunks.

Now if you're a military deserter or draft dodger, your'e still welcomed with open arms.......


RailNet802, over

I was on the EB in 2005 and at one of the stops near the Canadian border, US and Canadian border officers boarded and made a walk through. They didn't say anything to anyone other than maybe a "Pardon me" as they may have bumped someone. I sort of suspect they knew exactly what, or who they were looking for.

wa4umr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was on the EB in 2005 and at one of the stops
> near the Canadian border, US and Canadian border
> officers boarded and made a walk through. They
> didn't say anything to anyone other than maybe a
> "Pardon me" as they may have bumped someone. I
> sort of suspect they knew exactly what, or who
> they were looking for.

That was my experience on the Adirondack, as well, based on several trips.

Their main focus was US visitors from Australia and NZ who had made short visits to Canada not included in their US visa. Since they had been issued "one time only" entry passes, they had to be rechecked. Again, they knew who they were looking for...