Passenger Trains > N.Y.-Atlantic City casino train service running behind

N.Y.-Atlantic City casino train service running behind schedule
By THOMAS BARLAS Staff Writer, 609-272-7201
Published: Thursday, January 17, 2008
ATLANTIC CITY - Plans for express rail service that will whisk gamblers between New York and Atlantic City at high speeds and in high style are crawling along slower than a rickety old freight train.
Originally scheduled to start in December, the Atlantic City Express service will not begin running until this summer, officials confirmed Thursday during a board meeting of NJ Transit, the state bus and rail agency.

NJ Transit is still negotiating key details of the agreements with the three casinos that are financing the weekend service, known by the gambling-friendly "ACE" moniker. Still to be determined is whether there will be one or more stops between New York and Atlantic City, NJ Transit Executive Director Richard Sarles said.

The Friday-Saturday-Sunday runs would bring casino visitors from Manhattan to the resort in well-appointed rail cars designed to get them in an Atlantic City state of mind. One issue still unresolved is the interior design of the trains, Sarles said.

Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa, Harrah's Atlantic City and Caesars Atlantic City formed the ACE partnership in 2006 to fund a weekend-only, dedicated line between New York and the gambling resort. NJ Transit and the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority, a state agency funded by gaming revenue, are also part of the operations.



The casinos will spend $15 million to buy eight bi-level, luxury rail cars and are splitting the $4 million in operating costs with the CRDA. The CRDA also will spend $4.5 million to lease three diesel locomotives during a three-year test run.
NJ Transit will operate the service. Sarles noted that locomotives are undergoing tests to prepare for the rail line's start-up, whenever that will be. Word that the service will not begin until this summer is the second delay announced in recent months. Acknowledging that the original December launch date would not be met, the casinos said in late October that they hoped to begin service in the spring.

A statement issued Thursday by the ACE partnership did not explain the reasons for the latest delay. It did note, though, that the casinos are still negotiating ticketing and reservation services with Amtrak, the national passenger rail line that controls the Northeast Corridor tracks serving New York.

"As we are currently in the development and planning stages for ACE, it is premature to discuss specific details regarding the train routes, ticket pricing and any other aspect involving the new service," the statement said.

Rob Stillwell, a spokesman for Boyd Gaming Corp., Borgata's parent company, said as far as he knows, there are no plans to kill the train service.

"It's not as if there's anything wrong. It's just taking a little longer than we thought," Stillwell said.

The Atlantic City-New York train trip would take about 2 hours and 40 minutes. Although fares have not been announced yet, early estimates suggest riders would pay about $100, a rate competitive with one-way ticket prices for Amtrak's high-speed Acela service between New York and Philadelphia.

Casino officials say the train service would target well-heeled New York City residents who enjoy visiting the gaming halls but want an easier way to get to and from Atlantic City than driving. The gaming industry is searching for new customers after suffering a 5.7 percent revenue drop in 2007, the first time in Atlantic City's 30-year history of casino gambling that the annual "win" has declined.

A dedicated rail line between Atlantic City and New York was tried before, but Amtrak ditched the six-year trial in 1995 after concluding the little-used "Gambler's Express" was a financial failure.

To e-mail Donald Wittkowski at The Press:

DWittkowski@pressofac.com

To e-mail Thomas Barlas at The Press:

TBarlas@pressofac.com

http://pressofatlanticcity.com/top_three/story/7529145p-7430776c.html

I suspect the casinos figured it would be similar to getting US Airways, Spirit, Continental, and others to offer regular airline service to AC.

CRA negotiated a subsidy arrangement, and specified duration of the experiment. The airlines executed agreements with the airport authority, hired Signature to provide local flight support, posted the flights for crew bidding, and began flying. Three months.

Even though the markets didn't pan out, and the airlines pulled much of their service, it was a good try. Dealing with Amtrak, NJ Transit, etc may be a little more complicated.

There's already a train with the ACE moniker (Altamont Commuter Express), but I like the ACE name as to how it relates to gambling.

Now all we need is a west coast version of this train, going straight to Sin City! For those who have driven I-15 to Vegas on a Friday, or back home (west) on a Sunday, you know that train service would be very well patronized and welcomed by all.

So re: motive power, would it be NJT electrics between NYP and Frankford Jct and then diesels between FJ and AC? I wonder why this train couldn't depart Hoboken instead of NYP, avoiding the need to change engines?

JPB Wrote:
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> So re: motive power, would it be NJT electrics
> between NYP and Frankford Jct and then diesels
> between FJ and AC? I wonder why this train
> couldn't depart Hoboken instead of NYP, avoiding
> the need to change engines?

Depart from Hoboken! Instead of Penn Station (the center of the Universe). Ugh!

Do not the buses that depart the transportation center in Manhattan do it in considerably less time, making stops on/off the highways?
Rich S.

richs Wrote:
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> Do not the buses that depart the transportation
> center in Manhattan do it in considerably less
> time, making stops on/off the highways?
> Rich S.

You miss the point. The present bus service is not bringing as many hi-rollers to the casinos as it used to. Really HI-ROLLERS will pay luxury prices for luxury service. Time en route is not the most important criteria!

richs Wrote:
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> Do not the buses that depart the transportation
> center in Manhattan do it in considerably less
> time, making stops on/off the highways?

It appears to me that this service will be marketed to a clientele that doesn't care to rub elbows with the regular Joes on the casino buses -- and wouldn't care to ride a ferry or PATH across to Hoboken before boarding the train, either.

toledopatch Wrote:
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>
> It appears to me that this service will be
> marketed to a clientele that doesn't care to rub
> elbows with the regular Joes on the casino buses
> -- and wouldn't care to ride a ferry or PATH
> across to Hoboken before boarding the train,
> either.


The class of high-rollers that you refer to probably would not use this service anyway as they have personal luxury limos and drivers to take them wherever they want to go.

ChS7-321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> toledopatch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > It appears to me that this service will be
> > marketed to a clientele that doesn't care to
> rub
> > elbows with the regular Joes on the casino
> buses
> > -- and wouldn't care to ride a ferry or PATH
> > across to Hoboken before boarding the train,
> > either.
>
>
> The class of high-rollers that you refer to
> probably would not use this service anyway as they
> have personal luxury limos and drivers to take
> them wherever they want to go.


Well, if there's no class of gambler between the private-limo set and the slot-pullin' grannies on the buses, then these trains are going to be commercial failures.

>Do not the buses that depart the transportation center in Manhattan do it in considerably less time, making stops on/off the highways?

On a traffic free Sunday morning you can make it from the Port Authority Bus Terminal in NYC to the casinos of AC in about 2 hours 45 minutes. If this train is leaving at say, 6pm from Penn Station, the bus could easily take 3 1/2 hours or more, especially in the Summer months.

I don't know if there is a market for this service, but if it takes 2 hours and 40 minutes it will be time competitive with buses or private limos (unless they are carrying Governor Corzine at 92 mph!).

Tim

They need to find the multilevels that have the luxury frills first - to offer such service. They already got the motive power they need from Amtrak. NJT is having a hard enough time just getting the regular multilevels delivered and in service.

Let's move the clock back about 17 years....

Amtrak's one seat service of it's ACE trains (before Altamont Commuter Express), and before Transit could operate its trains out of 30th street, made the trip form NYP to ACY in 2hrs. 32 mins with a power change.

Can someone please tell me how luxury can be obtained in a multi-level commuter rail car? Even if you carpet everything, a sardine can is still a sardine can.

-Tom

Well I agree that Amtrak, our national passenger rail service, as opposed to NJT, a regional transit service is trying to corner this market with "luxo trains" where Amtrak couldn't and pulled out.

And I agree that Amtrak had a wider net to pull a passenger base from, and nicer coaches (i.e. extra legroom, at-seat fold down tables, reclining seats, and I believe a business class offering), as well as a cafe service that I am sure was well attended to with its relatively short consist (i.e. four coaches typically?).

The multilevel train cars for this service are supposed to offer a club interior with food/beverage service of some sort (perhaps better than what Amtrak could have offered) and they are supposed to offer more legroom than the "as delivered multilevel cars" that are operating on NJT currently. So the multilevels are supposed to have modifications and sort of "club" and "food/beverage" service. I've yet to see any mock-ups or full (set-in-stone) descriptions of what these cars will offer in terms of interior design and service.

But it can't be ignored that Amtrak tried this service (from NYP, Springfield, Richmond, Harrisburg, Philly etc.) and to Amtrak it failed. We can thank Amtrak for leaving behind the rails so NJT could continue its Atlantic City line, which they often say is towards the bottom of the list in terms of profitability measurements.

The only thing that NJT may have going for it is they may get more solid packages from the casinos to offer rail passenger riders and better shuttle service etc. And of course Atlantic City and the demographic of NJ and metro NYC has changed since Amtrak pulled the plug.

This new service (dubbed the "casino train") is supposed to pay for itself though (the NYC-Atlantic City NJT express service). And just as a Friday, Saturday, Sunday service.

As a NJ taxpayer - it better pay for itself. We were sort of bamboozled with all the "benefits" and tax relief Atlantic City was supposed to bring to the State - and hasn't for the most part. The State of New Jersey is so waylaid in debt that our state leaders are looking to jack up toll prices, install tolls on current non-existing toll roads, and the like.

I would hope that if "extra seats" are available in the non-luxo multilevel cars that they carry passengers be it to any stop that the "casino train" may stop at.

However, it is supposed to be indeed "express" stopping perhaps at NYC, Newark and Atlantic City (the major stops). Let's hope that one other NJ Transit station is offered in the mix. Metropark or Trenton perhaps? The later might be more sensible, being the state capitol, but this is on the "raceway" so to speak where you have a pretty good straight away for good speed, as opposed to Metropark where trains have to slow down anyway. Hopefully speed will help this time around as well (compared to NJT and Amtrak's service).

Overall, NJ needs to invest money in mass transit, as an alternative option to the toll hikes that are being talked about. But many planned NJT expansion routes remain on the "study list" - including the infamous "Trans-Hudson Express" tunnel (i.e. THE Tunnel or aka Access to the Region's Core). Everything seems to be stagnated until this tunnel is built even though Hoboken Terminal is I think often forgotten about and under utilized (NJT could run trains here during the interim of expanding and restoring former passenger lines in NJ).

Yes, I've digressed from the main topic of the "casino train" operations, but again, many things were promised to taxpayers in the establishment and build-up of Atlantic City and that has not really materialized (otherwise my taxes wouldn't be increasing exponentially!). This train may fall into the same bucket.

The "casino train" and multilevel car purchase by the "casino group" was the brainchild of the late CEO of NJT (and Amtrak for that matter) George Warrington. Warrington talked about plans to extend NJT's reach, so to speak, but using existing lines. Nothing has yet to materialize.

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> However, it is supposed to be indeed "express"
> stopping perhaps at NYC, Newark and Atlantic City
> (the major stops). Let's hope that one other NJ
> Transit station is offered in the mix. Metropark
> or Trenton perhaps? The later might be more
> sensible, being the state capitol, but this is on
> the "raceway" so to speak where you have a pretty
> good straight away for good speed, as opposed to
> Metropark where trains have to slow down anyway.

Actually, Metropark is in high speed territory as well. Trains are still doing about 100 mph there, slowing to 90 just to the south and then 80 for the Metuchen curve before getting back into 125 mph territory.

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As a NJ taxpayer - it better pay for itself. We
> were sort of bamboozled with all the "benefits"
> and tax relief Atlantic City was supposed to bring
> to the State - and hasn't for the most part. The
> State of New Jersey is so waylaid in debt that our
> state leaders are looking to jack up toll prices,
> install tolls on current non-existing toll roads,
> and the like...

> ...Overall, NJ needs to invest money in mass transit,
> as an alternative option to the toll hikes that
> are being talked about.


Huh? Jersey is in major debt, and your solution is to spend more on transit that requires increased subsidies INSTEAD of tolling that will pay for itself and then some? That math won't pencil out. If there is a speed up of transit expansion in NJ, the tolls are what will pay for it.

Anybody care to place a bet on when this service will actually deliver its first paying passengers?

I don't know when, but I am sure it will flop. Then we'll see the secret, fine print that Warrington inked into the contract as to what happens to these 8 privately, owned multi-levels. My guess is NJT gets to buy them. NJT already lied between their teeth that it wouldn't costs us anything, then spend $5.5M on Genesis engines from Amtrak. I already filed a formal written complaint with the state Inspector General over that one.

According the original article on top of this tread the $ 4.5 lease price for 3 locomotives from Amtrak is paid for by CRDA, not NJT.
Maybe NJT paid for the spare.

Other articles have stated they paid $5.16 million to purchase the engines though leasing was once contemplated, they become full-fledged NJT engines should the deal fall apart, and are available for use by NJT Mon-Thu (which is crap).