Passenger Trains > Coast Starlight relaunch now June 10th

From a friend at Fullerton Railroad Days, the relaunch date is now on June 10th. Pacific Parlour Car #39975 (Willamette Valley) is on display, and I'm told it looks great!

smitty195 Wrote:
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> From a friend at Fullerton Railroad Days, the
> relaunch date is now on June 10th. Pacific Parlour
> Car #39975 (Willamette Valley) is on display, and
> I'm told it looks great!

Good luck! I hope Amtrak has attended to all of the details. Does anyone else view this as a make it or break it test for long distance trains in the US?

Just curious, is the Willamette Valley 75 or 74?
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,1659409
Lynn. (just trying to keep it straight)

39975. The observation from Flagstaff had the wrong number. Mundo's original post and my buddy at RR Days both confirm it's 39975.

ts1457 Wrote:
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> smitty195 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> Good luck! I hope Amtrak has attended to all of
> the details. Does anyone else view this as a make
> it or break it test for long distance trains in
> the US?


I do. As far as the relaunched Starlight...if it takes off, with the special equipment and superior service, and makes it, perhaps it will serve as a model for the Sunset, SWChief, EB, and CA Zephyr. Perhaps parlour cars for all those trains?

Is it me, or is Amtrak copying VIA Rail's method of doing business. The nicer the amenities, the higher the patronage.

Thanx, I figured you guys were up close and personal with her at Fullerton. 74 is my favorite.
Lynn

39970 and 39972 are in Chicago having arrived from los grovos yesterday on the Hoosier. They look very nice, will post pics.

AlwaysLate Wrote:
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> ts1457 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > smitty195 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > Good luck! I hope Amtrak has attended to all of
> > the details. Does anyone else view this as a
> make
> > it or break it test for long distance trains in
> > the US?
>
>
> I do. As far as the relaunched Starlight...if it
> takes off, with the special equipment and superior
> service, and makes it, perhaps it will serve as a
> model for the Sunset, SWChief, EB, and CA Zephyr.
> Perhaps parlour cars for all those trains?
>
> Is it me, or is Amtrak copying VIA Rail's method
> of doing business. The nicer the amenities, the
> higher the patronage.

To some extent I think it is a make it or break it test for the long distance trains. Amtrak re-launched the Empire Builder what - two years ago now - and it was certainly was for the better. But has Amtrak really kept to ensuring this train gets the best renovated coaches or sleepers as it did when first launched? Mixed reports as of late on its continued success during its continued service as a "relaunch." I think its overall patronage and ridership has been for the better as a result of it. Extending the "wine and cheese" program to this train for sleeping car passengers has certainly been a plus for overall amenities provided. After the Empire Builder, I was under the belief that the CA Zephyr was to be next in line to get the "re-launch" - course this may have been Gunn's intention - cut short due to his departure!

It now appears the Coast Starlight was chosen instead as the next train for a "re-launch," and probably best as this train had fallen from its initial overhaul when receiving upgrading back in the 1990s (with the addition of the Parlor Cars etc.). But I don't think Amtrak has enough Superliner Sightseer Lounges to equip the Southwest Chief, CA Zephyr or even the Sunset with a special sleeping car lounge. Mere survival of the Sunset is even a debate. However, there are no more of the "Pacific Parlor" cars around - or rather the ex-Santa Fe Hi-Level Lounges to make this happen for the other trains. Amtrak unfortunately has gotten rid of these cars. And the Empire Builder got re-launched without an exclusive sleeper car Superliner Sightseer Lounge.

Compared to VIA, it seems Amtrak is trying to keep up with VIA Rail's Canadian, but VIA Rail's Canadian still has the best of the best in terms of mid-train Skyline Dome cars and the signature Park Dome/Lounge Car bringing up the markers. Moreover, VIA has purchased additional cars to add a new service class on some of its long distance trains. Amtrak has retired a most of its unique lounge cars - mostly of the "Heritage" class. Plus VIA's Canadian still will operate with more sleepers to capture the higher-end revenue, than compared to Amtrak. VIA decided to retain and maintain what Amtrak would dub its "Heritage cars."

However, the Coast Starlight and Empire Builder still operate with three Superliner sleepers during peak season as opposed to Amtrak's other long distance trains, which typically just operate with two full Superliner sleepers, at best. Fully utilizing the Superliner Trans/Dorm sleeper when demand requires would certainly help to fill in some sleeper revenue capacity.

Amtrak's East Coast single level trains still lack a good "lounge" car for either sleeper or coach passengers. Amtrak did come close with trying to offer a special lounge for sleeping car passengers in half of the "Heritage Crew Dorm." Plans called for the former 10-6 Heritage sleeper to have its 6 bedrooms removed for installation of a lounge section for sleeper car passengers, while retaining the 10 roomettes for the crew. Some "Heritage Crew Cars" were prepped for such renovation, but nothing more than removal of the 6 bedrooms was completed. Such a lounge made sense but Amtrak didn't have the money to make this into fruition and now has since retired the single level "Heritage Crew Cars." Their larger windows, would have allowed for better viewing and comfortable lounge chairs would have given passengers something in addition to enjoy rather than the Heritage Diner and their Viewliner sleeping room. Even the special Adirondack and Ethan Allen "Heritage Coaches" were nice passenger coaches with large windows that could have been made into a lounge, but again they were getting up their in age, so Amtrak retired them (prematurely in my opinion).

The Canadian, be it operated by VIA or on its original CP route, was sort of compared to the California Zephyr - both offering good service with the scenery to go along with it. Amtrak could still try to offer more with its long distance service, but will the additional amenities payoff. VIA has often established three service levels on long distance train operating in peak period (i.e. the Ocean operates with coach service, Comfort Sleeper, and Easterly Class Sleeper service). Same for the Skeena - operating with coach class, Totem class, and Totem Deluxe Class. The Canadian still just offers coach or "Silver and Blue Service" for its sleeping car passengers. Perhaps if the ex-CP Chateau cars get renovated, as VIA has plans to do (just awaiting the funding), a third class may emerge on the Canadian for these unique renovated sleeping cars. Each class adds a different element of service - largely access to a more premium type of passenger rail car (i.e. the Park Car for Easterly Class passengers or the Panorama car for the Totem Deluxe passengers). A Park Car even ventured onto the Hudson Bay train during peak season to offer a different lounge experience for this route.

Overall, Amtrak still has a long way to go to catch up with VIA's onboard service and amenities if you want my opinion. VIA can often capture the tourist groups better than Amtrak due to more consistent service being offered on its trains. Amtrak's lost the tourist group patronage it used to have, or lack of expansion thereof.

Well if Amtrak takes a page from VIA the LD trains will do well, and better with re-launches, I for one would love to see them resurrect LD Trains they shouldn't of gotten rid of in the 1St place, but hey, at least we got some, TS probably still has the mindset that LD Trains are still worthless!

I don't view the "relaunch" as vital to the survival of the Coast Starlight, or AMTRAK for that matter.

I just spent two weeks riding with an "Explore America" or whatever they call the pass this year. Rode the Empire Builder (2), Southwest Chief, California Zephyr, and Coast Starlight (LAX to SAC).

For the life of me I couldn't tell where the passengers came from. They all seemed to know that we would be late. (even though #3 was almost an hour early into LAX) Not one person knew that any of the cars had been updated. Not once did I hear a "NEVER AGAIN" story. (Even though the toilets didn't work. Even though we ran out of water. Even though the PA didn't work telling us what station we were at) Nobody was upset because the Seattle secton of the Builder didn't have a lounge through the Cascades. (These people don't even know there is a Pacific Parlour Car on some other train) Nobody was upset because of no diner on the Portland section of the Builder. Nobody even knew about the wine tasting on the Builder and when it took place they were more interested in talking about Milwaukee beer. They didn't know that Washington produced wine or Wisconsin, cheese.

I talked to one lady that AMTRAK had made reservations two months ago for the Coast Starlight from Seattle to LA. Two weeks ago they called her to tell her that she would have to ride a bus somewhere. She didn't even know where Oregon was. She wasn't talking "Never Again!"

At meals I talked to people that took the trip to see the scenery. Then they spent the entire time in their room reading a book. I watched people sleep the ENTIRE trip except when we stopped. They would look up and ask "Where are we?" Then go back to sleep. Others talked on their cell phones the ENTIRE trip. They had two complaints: (1) Somebody had the outlet in the Lounge Car tied up and they couldn't charge their batteries. (2) they couldn't get reception in tunnels. (one English couple called their children in London to tell them how the trip was going)

Personally I liked the new restrooms that were in some of the cars. They seem to have more room. You can hold both hands under the faucet while water runs. The cars that had the new restrooms also had a smooth finish on the walls along the hallways. EVERY, EVERY, EVERY car that had those new features had extremely worn stairways. I didn't hear a single person comment about the different rest rooms or different hallways.

I heard more complaints about running out of Orange Juice or Haggen Das than any thing else. (my complaint was they always ran out of the apple crisp)

My thoughts about the PP car are that it belongs on the Seattle section of the Empire Builder. As it stands there is nothing for the Seattle section between Seattle and Spokane. Why should the Coast Starlight have two lounge cars when a portion of the Empire Builder has none?

jb

PS It was reported here on TO that there was to be an April 27, Coast Starlight, trip over Tehachapi. I was one of a half dozen (that I know of) that took that trip. <G>

2:31AM I finally decided to upload the pics from today at Fullerton RR days.
The most important picture was the paper printed out that said "Coast Starlight Re-Launch on June 10, 2008". All of the Amtrak managers also said this date was in stone. The only thing that nobody seemed to understand is why they did it on a Tuesday rather then a weekend as originally planned (10MAY).


EDIT - Note the souvenirs now for sale, as well as the more sophisticated menus with more dining options then the "SDS" dining program.

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Last few...

EDIT - Notice the flat screen tv ... replacing the older tubes. According to Amtrak staff, they will play feature movies just as in past years.

The only other service expansion stated on the brochure/timetable is a "evening treat". A few years ago the train's Chef baked warm chocolate chip cookies every evening. I imagine a program similar to this will be returning.

Also, I really need to update the site...
www.PacificParlourCar.com .. it's only a few years old. :P

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So, what was on the menu?

To be honest, those menus look exactly like the current SDS menus in use right now.

Thanks for the pics "Mr Starlight99" (LOL---inside joke!). I'm glad that Amtrak was able to show off the car, and make a presence at Railroad Days!!

Goes to show how lacking Amtrak's marketing and advertising is paying off - regarding comments on a trip report regarding the Empire Builder and Coast Starlight. I have also experienced long distance trains sold out in sleeper section when I am aboard and people who continue to put up with the fact that Amtrak runs late trains - it's just expected and a "known" but a surprise when they are on time. Amtrak did do some advertising on the re-launch of the Empire Builder, but more could have been done outside of Amtrak's domain - meaning just advertising the service in the timetable or at there stations. Hitting other media outlets would probably produce some results. Hopefully Amtrak will get the Coast Starlight re-launch in good enough order that it will restore various tourist agencies to consider booking passengers on it etc.

The Pacific Parlor Car was a unique effort to upgrade the Coast Starlight one time before. Then the cars were not kept in good working order afterwards, hence Amtrak's restoration efforts of the cars to "re-launch" this train again, so to speak. I have no problem with the Empire Builder's setup in terms of its split at Spokane. It just makes logistics easier to have one portion of the train go to Seattle and the other to Portland, and as a result one section gets the Sightseer Lounge car in exchange for the other getting the diner. But for the majority of the trip, the Empire Builder has both cars in tow (east of Spokane). I personally think the Portland section is more scenic, and glad that this section gets the Superliner Sightseer Lounge car.

But I'll never forget a statement my father said on two trips a few years back. One was - why doesn't Amtrak have dome cars like VIA Rail's Canadian (we had previously taken a trip across Canada on the Canadian and returned east via the Empire Builder)? He also added that he was glad we took the Canadian first and then Amtrak second, as he really enjoyed the Canadian. Then when on the Coast Starlight he asked - why don't all long distance Amtrak trains have this Pacific Parlor Car for sleeping car passengers?

jp1822 Wrote:
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> The Pacific Parlor Car was a unique effort to
> upgrade the Coast Starlight one time before. Then
> the cars were not kept in good working order
> afterwards, hence Amtrak's restoration efforts of
> the cars to "re-launch" this train again, so to
> speak.


Exactly! I don't see this as a "re-launch" of the train, but more of a "restoration of service" that was allowed to deteriorate and fade away.

Re-launch or restoration, it's great 14 and 11 will be back to how it was back in 95 or 96! I for one also hope UP actually, and I mean actually keeps consistentcy on this train because everyone knows how moody that railroad can be!

I would have hoped that the downstairs could have had the television torn out and replaced with a lounge to add capacity. My experience is the theater doesn't get patronized all that much and it is rather distracting to try and watch a movie.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

A couple more comments about the people that ride AMTRAK. They ARE NOT railfans and know all of the stuff that is discussed here. The wine tasting was not mentioned the day after we had it. The next day the biggest topic of discussion was "Why are we late?" The exception to being late was The Chief into LA. We were on time at Fullerton and people started using their cell phones telling "somebody" that they could meet them "on time" at Los Angeles. NOT ONE of them knew that the sched was padded an hour between Fullerton and LAX. They had to wait at the station almost an hour for their rides. Late trains were the most common complaint I heard.

AMTRAK may be accurate in describing the features of the train but what the customer hears is something totally different. Time after time I heard couples talk about the small roomette. When they booked it they did not understand that one of the beds was an overhead bunk that an elderly or obese person would have difficulty with. I saw an elderly man travelling alone that had the economy room and was unhappy because he couldn't have the bed down and have a seat at the same time. That didn't keep him from planning his next trip which would be with one of the family rooms. (he didn't mention wine tasting or new bathrooms)

Many of the passengers I met booked through a travel agent. Some of the stories I heard made me think that this booking was the first time the travel agent had made an AMTRAK reservation.

With the exception of the Tehachapi trip, I saw one other person on the trip that "might" know something about AMTRAK and he was a model railroader. None of the things being discussed here are what got the people I met on the train.

Nobody had heard of the one/two/three zone pass. One woman was a several times a year rider and instantly caught on. I could tell she was going to be asking some questions when she mumbled "Why haven't I been told that?" (where has AMTRAK'S marketing been?)

Right now the Cascades Talgos are showing movies that have some connecton to the railroads. This is because of the upcoming Rail Day/Week. How many people do you know that are riding the Cascades because of those movies? Yesterday more people were playing games on ther lap tops than were watching "Murder on the Orient Express."

My belief is that "On Time" performance will attract more people to AMTRAK than a large screen movie or wine tasting.

Right now I think I am hearing a totally different attitude about the way the UP is handling the SEA/EUG stub Starlight. I hear them say "You will have to get out of the way, AMTRAK is coming." I hope I'm correct about this and it applies to the whole route when the train starts going through.

jb

AlwaysLate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ts1457 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > smitty195 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > Good luck! I hope Amtrak has attended to all of
> > the details. Does anyone else view this as a
> make
> > it or break it test for long distance trains in
> > the US?
>
>
> I do. As far as the relaunched Starlight...if it
> takes off, with the special equipment and superior
> service, and makes it, perhaps it will serve as a
> model for the Sunset, SWChief, EB, and CA Zephyr.
> Perhaps parlour cars for all those trains?
>
> Is it me, or is Amtrak copying VIA Rail's method
> of doing business. The nicer the amenities, the
> higher the patronage.


Well, let's hope Amtrak is not copying VIA too well. Otherwise, the likely result is a single triweekly transcon run.