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Date: 02/03/09 18:59
BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: kodachrome9319

http://www.ktvu.com/news/18633495/detail.html

Several People Suffer Minor Injuries In BART Collision
Tuesday, February 3, 2009 – updated: 6:43 pm PST February 3, 2009

OAKLAND, Calif. -- Preliminary reports indicate that four or five people suffered minor injuries when two Bay Area Rapid Transit trains collided at the 12th Street station in Oakland Tuesday afternoon, a BART spokesman said.
Injured commuters were being taken on stretchers up escalators and elevators to ambulances waiting on Broadway, and BART officials said one wheelchair-bound passenger may have remained on a train at about 4 p.m.
Trains heading from Fremont to Richmond were delayed by between 10 and 15 minutes, and passengers on other lines could experience slight delays as well, BART spokesman Linton Johnson said.
The accident happened at about 3 p.m. and involved one train headed to Richmond and another headed to Pittsburg/Bay Point, Johnson said. One of the trains went off the rail, he said.
Passengers managed to exit the trains and used a catwalk to return to the platform.
Johnson said both of the trains were entering the 12th Street station when the collision happened, one coming from Lake Merritt and the other from West Oakland.
He said the trains were moving slowly and that the impact probably felt like a "bump" to passengers.



Date: 02/03/09 19:05
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: chuchubob




Date: 02/03/09 19:09
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: Highspeed

Can anyone contribute information on BART's ATS/ATC systems and perhaps why it didn't work in this situation?

It would be hard for me to imagine this being blamed on 'operator error', unless of course the closing & opening of the doors caused this accident.


"BART lines are experiencing delays after a collision between two trains at the Oakland Wye, a junction beneath downtown. The trains were heading toward the 12th Street/Oakland City Center station when one sideswiped another about 2:55 p.m. One of the trains had departed West Oakland station [eastbound from San Francisco]; the other was coming from Lake Merritt station [northbound from Fremont]." [Each train was to take a separate leg of the wye and then enter the 12th Street Station... just not at the same time!]

Photo by Michael Macor / The San Francisco Chronicle:





Date: 02/03/09 19:13
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: stash

An initial report stated:
"A car on one of the trains may have been pushed slightly off of the tracks."

That's BART-speak for derailed.



Date: 02/03/09 19:14
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: RV009

I guess their version of Positive Train separation dont work.



Date: 02/03/09 19:16
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: Jaanfo

stash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> An initial report stated:
> "A car on one of the trains may have been pushed
> slightly off of the tracks."
>
> That's BART-speak for derailed.


Looking at the photo above, I'd say that was downplayed.......

It would appear from the photo the train in the foreground had the Right of Way (Note the switch points). Public Trainsit's had a lot of bad press in this sense the past year.



Date: 02/03/09 20:50
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: TCnR

The local radio traffic report played it as a very minor delay. Chalk up another one for BART.



Date: 02/03/09 20:52
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: SandyEgan

Yeah... right

Looks like passengers "only felt a bump" to me.



Date: 02/03/09 20:58
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: barrydraper

"The trains are under automatic computer control. Nothing can go wrong. ..go wrong. ..go wrong."



Date: 02/03/09 21:33
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: a737flyer

Well, at least they can't blame the engineer or conductor...!



Date: 02/03/09 22:05
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: PSurfliner

Two observations:

1) Trains are supposed to arrive roughly simultaneously from Fremont and SF at the 12th St. Station., which has two tracks for northbound travel. The train from Fremont is supposed to arrive on the east track and the train from SF is supposed to arrive on the west track. The way the Oakland Wye is set up, that's the only option. The photo above shows both trains wedged at the switch on the east track. In short, the train from SF had no business on that track.

2) You can see in the photo that the switch is in the reverse position, lined for the train from Fremont. This confirms that the train from SF didn't belong.

How this could have happened, given BART's automatic operations, is beyond me.



Date: 02/03/09 23:10
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: cs16

A bird strike knocked out the PTC causing a freak longitudinal acceleration in the flux capacitor



Date: 02/03/09 23:41
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: ry

> a freak longitudinal acceleration

Now THAT's more like BART speak for a derailment. :)



Date: 02/04/09 00:49
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: PSurfliner

ry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now THAT's more like BART speak for a derailment.
> :)

Look's just like a small scratch to me. :O



Date: 02/04/09 01:24
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: tracktime

PSurfliner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Now THAT's more like BART speak for a
> derailment.
> > :)
>
> Look's just like a small scratch to me. :O

It'll buff out.



Date: 02/04/09 07:11
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: smitty195

Duct tape.



Date: 02/04/09 07:47
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: joemagruder

The article in the Chron said that one of the trains was under operator control rather than the automatic train control. That would allow such an accident (but still wouldn't explain why the Bay Point train was on what is usually the Richmond track).



Date: 02/04/09 09:42
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: chakk

barrydraper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The trains are under automatic computer control.
> Nothing can go wrong. ..go wrong. ..go wrong."


BART operates like the Washington Metro -- and all others with which I am aware -- in that the operator can take the train out of automatic control and into manual control. The BART train that collided with the second train was running at the time under manual control. News reports at 11 say the operator ignored -- or failed to hear -- two audio warnings that he was entering an occupied block.



Date: 02/04/09 14:53
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: GP25

That picture. would make a great caption this thread on here.



Date: 02/04/09 15:00
Re: BART Derailment and Collision Today (CA)
Author: MW4man

chakk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> barrydraper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "The trains are under automatic computer
> control.
> > Nothing can go wrong. ..go wrong. ..go wrong."
>
>
> BART operates like the Washington Metro -- and all
> others with which I am aware -- in that the
> operator can take the train out of automatic
> control and into manual control. The BART train
> that collided with the second train was running at
> the time under manual control. News reports at 11
> say the operator ignored -- or failed to hear --
> two audio warnings that he was entering an
> occupied block.

Does that mean that under the Bart/Wash Metro system there is no underlying vital signal system? On PATCO even if the operator takes manual control the underlying cab signal will still stop the train if it blows a signal.



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