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Passenger Trains > EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator


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Date: 10/04/11 21:56
EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: shed47

A 125 m.p.h four axle unit due for release in 2014. Interesting to note that it will not be powered by an EMD 710 but by an engine from the Caterpillar line. Artists illustration(in the link below) shows a very clean look. From today's Railway Gazette International:

04 October 2011

USA: Electro-Motive Diesel announced the development of a 200 km/h ‘next generation’ diesel passenger locomotive for the North American market at APTA Expo 2011 in New Orleans on October 3. The design is being produced on a speculative basis, and a prototype is to be rolled out during 2014.

The four-axle diesel-electric locomotive will have ‘streamlined’ styling, including a prominent roof-level headlight for a ‘classic’ American look. The body will incorporate a high level of collision protection, and the microprocessor-controlled onboard equipment will be designed for ‘mission completion’ with predictive and diagnostic capabilities and no single point of failure.

The engine has not yet been finalised, but will be from the Caterpillar range; it will be compliant with the EPA Tier 4 emissions regulations which come into effect for new locomotives from 2015.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/emd-to-produce-passenger-demonstrator-loco.html



Date: 10/04/11 22:16
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: coach

Just dust off the blueprints and bring back the "E" and "F" unit designs! They own still own them, so bring them back--the new stuff is not so pleasing to the eye.



Date: 10/04/11 22:17
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: SOO6617

shed47 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A 125 m.p.h four axle unit due for release in
> 2014. Interesting to note that it will not be
> powered by an EMD 710 but by an engine from the
> Caterpillar line. Artists illustration(in the
> link below) shows a very clean look. From today's
> Railway Gazette International:

They need a lighter diesel engine with a high power rating, which implies a higher rpm. Not something likely to appeal to the freight operators.



Date: 10/04/11 22:32
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: Fizzboy7

It's about time. With Amtrak's fleet nearing the end of it's cycle, there's going to be a big need for new passenger power.



Date: 10/04/11 23:14
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: Jaanfo

Fizzboy7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's about time. With Amtrak's fleet nearing the
> end of it's cycle, there's going to be a big need
> for new passenger power.


Nearing the end of its cycle? Some of those units are barely 10 years old!!



Date: 10/04/11 23:19
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: Fizzboy7

I should clarify, "when" they reach the end of their life cycle.
Although many of Amtrak's bread and butter locos are getting tired. I haven't researched this too heavily, but I've been wondering... Does the average long-distance passenger (Amtrak) engine accumulate miles faster than it's freight engine counterpart?



Date: 10/05/11 00:26
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: Newman

Ohh...I dont know...I think someones been watching a little too much speed racer...






Date: 10/05/11 03:38
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: ClubCar

coach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just dust off the blueprints and bring back the
> "E" and "F" unit designs! They own still own
> them, so bring them back--the new stuff is not so
> pleasing to the eye.

coach:

You hit the nail right on the head. I have heard many train travelers express the same thing, a modern "E" unit with the high horse power and all modern controls, etc. Even many railroad executives are in agreement as demonstrated by the Class I's that have restored "E" & "F" units to pull their executive trains. I hope that this does happen.

JH a/k ClubCar



Date: 10/05/11 05:15
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: ctillnc

E units had twin 567s for increased reliability when only one unit was pulling a train. Even though this makes a lot of sense -- as we've seen in failures of lone EMD and GE units in Amtrak service -- it's hard to imagine that Amtrak or a state/local entity would pay a premium for a twin prime mover configuration today.



Date: 10/05/11 05:38
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: CDTX

Who says it has to be equipped with twin prime movers?


Jeff

Posted from iPhone



Date: 10/05/11 05:46
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: KV1guy

Fizzboy7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's about time. With Amtrak's fleet nearing the
> end of it's cycle, there's going to be a big need
> for new passenger power.


Ya as mentioned these units are basically approaching the time for their midlife overhaul. Personally, I think we should take one of our P42's and send it back to GE to be the testbed for an upgrade option. Yank the 4250hp 16 cyl FDL and drop a Tier 3, 10 cyl 3800hp EVO engine in it. Install a separate HEP pony motor. Change the traction system over to AC. The AC will allow for several advantages:

1. Cheaper maintenance as we all know.
2. There should be an increase in tractive effort with a 3800hp powerplant/AC traction system VS a 4250hp/ DC system.
3. AC traction will allow for individually controlled traction motors to pull their best VS being limited to the axle that holds the rail the least on a DC system. This should also help due to light overall loco weight.
4. Dynamic brake still available (although reduced) if one traction motor is cut out.
5. If the HEP pony motor fails, the loco can take one TM offline and use its inverter to supply HEP.
6. Substantial fuel savings
7. Cheaper than buying new units

Negative factors:

1. AC traction equipment costs more than DC counterpart
2. AC traction motors aren't well suited for stop and go life of a passenger diesel.
3. Effect of AC motor fields around humans.
4. Does upgrade cost pay for itself over the units estimated remaining time of service life.


Anyone else think of anything else?



Date: 10/05/11 05:57
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: joemvcnj

Looks like a 1970's Rohr Turboliner.
Roof-top headlight in and of itself does not make it look "American".



Date: 10/05/11 07:03
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: rfdatalink

Going along with the "why don't they build a new E unit" them, here's a question. I've always heard what excellent ride quality the 3 axle trucks on E units had, why not bring them back? They were a A1A truck which has limitations for tractive effort, but with new traction control system how much of an issue is that? Witness GE selling some of their new AC freight locomotives equipped with A1A trucks.

Stephen



Date: 10/05/11 09:05
Re: ZZZZZ...
Author: Ray_Murphy

News Item: Locomotive manufacturer announces a new product development effort; includes conceptual artwork.

Predictable Response: Railfan design experts pooh-pooh the entire initiative; would rather see a 70-year old design recycled.

Why not lobby for steam engines, guys?


Ray



Date: 10/05/11 09:43
Re: ZZZZZ...
Author: radar

Ray_Murphy Wrote:
> Predictable Response: Railfan design experts
> pooh-pooh the entire initiative; would rather see
> a 70-year old design recycled.
>
> Why not lobby for steam engines, guys?

And if EMD did come out with a new, E look alike, then we'd all grip that they didn't get the details right or that they used composites instead of sheet metal.



Date: 10/05/11 10:02
Re: ZZZZZ...
Author: Macster

Personally.. gimme these...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm9I8NVqsl8&feature=related



Date: 10/05/11 10:26
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: abyler

coach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just dust off the blueprints and bring back the
> "E" and "F" unit designs! They own still own
> them, so bring them back--the new stuff is not so
> pleasing to the eye.


6 axle passenger locomotives running at 90+ mph will never happen. There is a long memory of the failure of the SDP40F, P30CH, and E60CP. The tracks take a beating and the truck technology has never been made reliable.

These won't happen for the same reason GM is not about to recreate a 1959 Cadillac as a current sales model, despite everyone loving the tail fins.



Date: 10/05/11 10:39
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: joemvcnj

Doesn't the center axle being non-powered make a difference ? And now we have steerable axles.
We all know about the hollow-bolster fiasco with the SDP40F and E60, plus their high center of gravity. That does not have to be repeated.



Date: 10/05/11 10:48
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: Jishnu

Since the primary goal for high speed locomotives is to reduce their weight in the first place, what would be the point of going with a six axle truck, which will always be harder on the track than a four axle one?



Date: 10/05/11 10:48
Re: EMD to Produce Passenger Locomotive Demonstrator
Author: SOO6617

ctillnc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> E units had twin 567s for increased reliability
> when only one unit was pulling a train. Even
> though this makes a lot of sense -- as we've seen
> in failures of lone EMD and GE units in Amtrak
> service -- it's hard to imagine that Amtrak or a
> state/local entity would pay a premium for a twin
> prime mover configuration today.


E-units had twin 567s because they couldn't get 2000 hp out of a single diesel at the time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/11 10:48 by SOO6617.



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