Passenger Trains > Desert Wind over Tennessee Pass

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Desert Wind seems to be current topic, so I will add a story to the lore.

Shortly before they dropped the DW we were traveling from LAS to DEN and we were
stopped about 30 miles past Dotzero (know where that is and what the name means?). There was
a rock slide in Gore Canyon ahead of us. We backed a short distance to a siding where we just
had a meet with # 5. Apparently they just missed the rock slide!

The two units were run around the train and coupled to the rear. Fortunately, they were coupled
tail to tail, a Genesis and an FP-45 now in the lead, as we headed back west probably to Glenwood Springs
and a dreaded stink-buggy ride to Denver in the middle of the night. I see the conductor and ask
him to confirm my fears, and he responds, "Nosir we're taking this train over Tennessee Pass."
There hadn't been a passenger train over this route since D&RGW's pre-Amtrak Royal Gorge.

At Dotzero the train was wyed and we headed up Tennessee Pass. Buses met the train at Minturn and
those so desiring could take the short cut to Denver via I-70. It never crossed my mind. Over the
pass we went, through the Royal Gorge, Pueblo and up the front range arriving Denver at 7:00 am
12 hours late. I wrote an article about the trip in "Rail Travel News". I believe this was the
only time Amtrak ever took this detour. It was shortly after UP took over.

jbaker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------
> The Desert Wind seems to be current topic, so I
> will add a story to the lore.
>
> Shortly before they dropped the DW we were
> traveling from LAS to DEN and we were
> stopped about 30 miles past Dotzero (know where
> that is and what the name means?)


Dotsero is the west end of the 1932 cutoff between the Denver & Salt Lake and the D&RGW, making a shortcut for
trains operating Denver-Grand Jct.-Salt Lake City via the Moffat Tunnel, bypassing the Tennessee Pass line. The
opposite end of the cutoff is Orestod...Dotsero spelled backwards.

The station name Dotsero actually predates the 1932 construction, having been the zero reference point for an 1877 survey
of the area.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/12 16:24 by GenePoon.

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jbaker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > ------------------------------
> > The Desert Wind seems to be current topic, so I
> > will add a story to the lore.
> >
> > Shortly before they dropped the DW we were
> > traveling from LAS to DEN and we were
> > stopped about 30 miles past Dotzero (know where
> > that is and what the name means?)
>
>
> Dotsero = Milepost Zero (0.0: Zero Dot Zero) of
> the cutoff between the D&SL and the D&RGW, making
> a shortcut for trains
> operating Denver-Grand Jct.-Salt Lake City via the
> Moffat Tunnel, bypassing the Tennessee Pass line.
> The opposite end
> of the cutoff is Orestod...Dotsero spelled
> backwards.

This is indeed the most widely-distributed origin of the name, but it actually dates from at least the USGS 1877 Hayden Surveys, and there's anecdotal evidence that while he did use the location as his "dot zero" for surveys up and down the canyons of the Grand and Eagle Rivers, he was given the idea by a Spanish name for the place, hence the spelling. However I have no idea if there is such a word in Spanish, or if so what it means. The prevalent pronunciation in these parts is the more-or-less Spanish "Dot-sair'-o," not "Dot-ze'-ro."

Amtrak never had any FP45s, and certainly none were in passenger service by the time Genesis units were around. F40PH, most likely.

Do you have any rough idea of the date of this trip? I would like to place it in the timeline of the D&RGW/SP/UP activity. Wish I had been on that one! Thanks!

ggibg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you have any rough idea of the date of this
> trip? I would like to place it in the timeline of
> the D&RGW/SP/UP activity. Wish I had been on that
> one! Thanks!


The date was March 9, 1997. One other thing I remember about the trip is we
had maybe the best ever sleeping car attendant, a gentleman named Bob Heath.

OK, I checked and in the article I said "F-40" and spelled "Dotsero" corectly.

Curiously enough, I just noticed that the current Google map view of the Dotsero wye area shows what I assume is #6 (an eastbound Zephyr) just to the west-southwest of the wye.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.644544,-107.058313&spn=0.014127,0.022273&t=h&z=16

The train is where the tracks are closest to the river at the lower left corner of the above-linked view.

Nice catch. Amazing what can be found on Google Maps.

coaststarlight99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice catch. Amazing what can be found on Google
> Maps.


Last time I looked, Google Street View of the VIA Rail station area in Dauphin, Manitoba
showed the triweekly VIA Rail train to Churchill during its station stop.

lowwater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is indeed the most widely-distributed origin
> of the name, but it actually dates from at least
> the USGS 1877 Hayden Surveys, and there's
> anecdotal evidence that while he did use the
> location as his "dot zero" for surveys up and down
> the canyons of the Grand and Eagle Rivers, he was
> given the idea by a Spanish name for the place,
> hence the spelling. However I have no idea if
> there is such a word in Spanish, or if so what it
> means. The prevalent pronunciation in these parts
> is the more-or-less Spanish "Dot-sair'-o," not
> "Dot-ze'-ro."

The story I have always heard was that DOTSERO was a local Ute Indian Chief...several DRGW stations in the area do have Ute related names...so I am told.

there have been a few stealth passenger trains on the route, the RGZ also was detoured this way too. AARPCO AAR RG SP UP all had PV trips this way , you were most fortunate! You may have been the last atk scheduled train that went that way,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/12 10:21 by dan.

jbaker: Thanks for the timestamp. I believe that Mr. Heath (your car attendant) is prominently featured in Henry Kisor's book ZEPHYR, now available in a new ebook version which has been delightfully updated from the original.

BNSF6400 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lowwater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is indeed the most widely-distributed
> origin
> > of the name, but it actually dates from at
> least
> > the USGS 1877 Hayden Surveys, and there's
> > anecdotal evidence that while he did use the
> > location as his "dot zero" for surveys up and
> down
> > the canyons of the Grand and Eagle Rivers, he
> was
> > given the idea by a Spanish name for the place,
> > hence the spelling. However I have no idea if
> > there is such a word in Spanish, or if so what
> it
> > means. The prevalent pronunciation in these
> parts
> > is the more-or-less Spanish "Dot-sair'-o," not
> > "Dot-ze'-ro."
>
> The story I have always heard was that DOTSERO was
> a local Ute Indian Chief...several DRGW stations
> in the area do have Ute related names...so I am
> told.

Entirely possible.....if I have time this week I'll try to dig a little deeper. Although this area was all Spanish for a long time there wasn't much actual Spanish activity in this part of the state.

i figured it was dot 0 on the the survey line to orestod, SO it predated that?

Amtrak detoured over TP several times before it closed...........

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i figured it was dot 0 on the the survey line to
> orestod, SO it predated that?


It was always my understanding it was from a survey book, as described, denoting the beginning
of horizontal stationing or mile posts. The original railroad survey would have been prior to
1900, as the original Moffat Route over Rollins Pass used this same route to Fraiser/Winter Park,
over the 11,000 ft. pass, then rejoining the existing line just east of east portal of the
Moffit Tunnel. This line remained in service until the tunnel was built.

the burlington may have put thru the first rr survey in the area