Passenger Trains > Trespasser fatality shuts down RF&P

Amtrak Train 95(17) struck a trespasser on CSX's ex-RF&P, Track 2 at Crossroads Interlocking.
The trespasser survived the initial impact but has since died.

Railroad is shut down for the investigation. Location is right where the VRE trains go to
Crossroads Yard.

The engineer on 95 is being relieved, a recrew is enroute from Richmond.

VRE trains will hold on Track 2 for open track into the yard. Amtrak 53(17), 125(17) perhaps 93(17)
will be delayed. Amtrak 80(17) was past the scene when the trespasser strike occurred.

Train status at Amtrak.com has not yet been updated as a result of this incident.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/12 14:52 by GenePoon.

How about train 125?

Ah, that would explain why 95 is so late into Williamsburg. Was gonna watch it come through after school, but saw it was running like 2 hours behind...

amanwtf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about train 125?

Original post says it would probably be delayed. Sure enough, Amtrak.com says it is
expected at Fredericksburg at 525pm, which was 1 hr 20 min ago.

Amtrak 93(17) is shown at Amtrak.com as expected in Fredericksburg right now...but in
reality it is being held at Washington.

VRE trains are operating their full revenue route to Fredericksburg, then lining up behind
Amtrak 95(17) on Track Two, which they must use to get to their yard.

UPDATE: Amtrak estimates release of Train 95(17) at around 700pm.

UPDATES TO UPDATE: Amtrak says to push that back by 20 min...no, make that 30 min...or how
about 45 min...would you believe 1 hr 10 min...or 1 hr 30 min...

VRE Train 313 is ten minutes late at Rippon...now approaching Leeland...now arrived
Fredericksburg.

Amtrak 93(17) departed Washington 55 min. late, Alexandria 1 hr 5 min late, Quantico 1 hr. 25 min late.

Amtrak 125(17) arrived 1 1/2 hours late at Fredericksburg and holding (incident is about eight
miles south).



Edited 17 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/12 17:22 by GenePoon.

Again I wish to register my objection to the use of the word "trespasser" in this sort of incident.

To equate a person's alleged (or actual) legal status with their worth as a human being is offensive and disrespectful. Our emotional energy would be better spent working on the preventing these catastrophes from occurring in the first place.

My condolences to all involved: the deceased and his/her family; the train crew and passengers as well as the emergency responders.

John Webb
Trinidad, CA

Pedestrian hit, killed on train tracks in Spotsylvania, police say
Fredericksburg.com
by KATIE THISDELL

> A man was hit and killed by a southbound Amtrak train around 4 p.m.
> Wednesday in Spotsylvania County. Police would say only that the
> victim was a white male.
>
> The train was carrying about 200 passengers and was in the middle of
> three tracks along Benchmark Road, said Capt. Mike Harvey of the
> Sheriff’s Office. He didn’t know where it was going or where it came
> from.
>
> Police and rescue crews are still investigating the case.
>
> “We’re piecing everything together now,” Harvey said.
>
> The age of the man is not yet known.
>
> Virginia State Police directed traffic in the area between Mine Road
> and U.S. 17.
>
> The train’s engineer saw the man crossing the tracks, from the wooded
> side to the road, about 200 yards from the railroad crossing at Mine
> Road. The engineer said the man didn’t even acknowledge the train as
> he walked across the tracks.

http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/newsdesk/2012/10/17/pedestrian-hit-killed-on-train-tracks-in-spotsylvania-police-say/

I second this statement.

Winnemucca Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again I wish to register my objection to the use
> of the word "trespasser" in this sort of incident.
>
>
> To equate a person's alleged (or actual) legal
> status with their worth as a human being is
> offensive and disrespectful. Our emotional energy
> would be better spent working on the preventing
> these catastrophes from occurring in the first
> place.
>
> My condolences to all involved: the deceased and
> his/her family; the train crew and passengers as
> well as the emergency responders.

if someone is hit and injured on railroad right-of-way, they are a trespasser.

Since this person died later (assuming at a hospital), why does it take two+ hours to reopen a railroad.

You interview the train crew; maybe replace them; and let other trains pass by. The police dept. mindset of "investigating" the "cause" of this incident baffles me.

Winnemucca Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again I wish to register my objection to the use
> of the word "naked" when speaking about the Emperor's glorious new clothes.

John, what adjective would you and the others suggest be used in place of the word trespasser so as not to offend anyone?

KR

We complain about inaccurate reporting of news items regarding railway occurrences, and then criticize the use of "trespasser" when that is the description of the victim. Presumably, if the victim were a railway employee or a pedestrian struck while using an official grade crossing, the person would be identified as such. I won't reprint it on this posting, but George Carlin had a few choice words about these cases.

Please explain why trespasser is inaccurate? The overall intent here is to place the blame squarely in the hands of those walking tracks while paying no attention to warning signals. I don;t want to see the railroads fenced and inacessible.I love to walk the tracks, especially the trestles, but of course I pay sewrious attention to train schedules, and room on the bridge should an unusual train happen through.

This whole objection to "tresspaasser" sounds too much like political correctness.

And I strongly agree that Anytrak and the relevant law ennforcement people should strive for a MAXINUN 2 hr delay due to "suicide by Amtrak" or people trying to compete for a Drawin award.

Just my opinion.

Phil S

DNRY122 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We complain about inaccurate reporting of news
> items regarding railway occurrences, and then
> criticize the use of "trespasser" when that is the
> description of the victim. Presumably, if the
> victim were a railway employee or a pedestrian
> struck while using an official grade crossing, the
> person would be identified as such.

This.

The media puts out too many stories of the "guy was just taking a stroll when, out of nowhere, a train careened into him and killed him." ilk as it is.

Use of a word such as "pedestrian" could imply, as most often the case
with automobiles, the driver, or the train in this case, was at fault.
"Trespasser" on the other hand correctly conveys a message to the public
that walking on the row is in fact trespassing and dangerous.

If a "pedestrian" is struck by a car on a busy downtown street do they
block off the street for 2-3 hours for an investigation?

As a locomotive engineer who has been involved in more fatal incidents than I care to remember, I think "trespasser" is more than appropriate. There are, of course, other unprintable words that come to mind as you are about to hit them, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with that term as it is an accurate description.

If the railroad police had spotted this person on the right of way and arrested him the charge would be trespassing..

I agree with your sentiment. It's a little unseemly to use an accusatory word for someone who's dead.
But it's most often an accurate term plus it's the railroad's (and mostly the hobby's) way of clarifying blame.
The news media almost always uses the phrase "hit by a train" or "a train struck and killed..". Railroaders and some in the hobby feel that is language that directs blame toward the railroad. Using "trespasser" squarely clears up who's at fault here and who caused this mess.

While I agree with it's accuracy, I still feel it's a little unfair to the poor slob who's dead.

It would be akin to saying "2 Conductors, 1 engineer dead in head-on crash caused by RULE VIOLATOR"

Just saying..

Danny Harmon
Tampa

Winnemucca Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again I wish to register my objection to the use
> of the word "trespasser" in this sort of incident.
>
>
> To equate a person's alleged (or actual) legal
> status with their worth as a human being is
> offensive and disrespectful. Our emotional energy
> would be better spent working on the preventing
> these catastrophes from occurring in the first
> place.
>
> My condolences to all involved: the deceased and
> his/her family; the train crew and passengers as
> well as the emergency responders.

As far as I am concerned, unless said person was a railroad employee, his/her presence on the railroad track or its proximity so as to be hit by a train, in and of itself makes said person a ""trespasser". So I tend to ignore objections to the use of that term in this context, since I consider such unjustified.

irhoghead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a locomotive engineer who has been involved in
> more fatal incidents than I care to remember, I
> think "trespasser" is more than appropriate.
> There are, of course, other unprintable words that
> come to mind as you are about to hit them, but I
> see absolutely nothing wrong with that term as it
> is an accurate description.


Hear, hear, hear!

phil-s Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please explain why trespasser is inaccurate? The
> overall intent here is to place the blame squarely
> in the hands of those walking tracks while paying
> no attention to warning signals. I don;t want to
> see the railroads fenced and inacessible.I love to
> walk the tracks, especially the trestles, but of
> course I pay sewrious attention to train
> schedules, and room on the bridge should an
> unusual train happen through.
>
> This whole objection to "tresspaasser" sounds too
> much like political correctness.
>
> And I strongly agree that Anytrak and the relevant
> law ennforcement people should strive for a
> MAXINUN 2 hr delay due to "suicide by Amtrak" or
> people trying to compete for a Drawin award.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> Phil S



"I don't want to see the railroads fenced and inacessible. I love to walk the tracks, especially the trestles"

Huh? Well my friend, you yourself are part of the problem. You actually cross bridges and tressels? You are the reason why people such as myself cant get good shots because of fencing and overly extended property lines with a million NO TRESPASSING signs up. Thank you so much for making it THAT much harder for the rest of us...