Passenger Trains > Amtrak website not very intuitive

I was just trying to find some train alternatives on Amtrak's website. When I put in my cities, I got the dreaded "Problem Finding Service: Sorry, we cannot find train service matching your request. Please try alternate stations/cities. To learn more about trains available at a particular station, please click on the 'Stations' tab above."

I know that my request requires an overnight in MA. There are lots of people who are new to Amtrak who wouldn't know that. Why isn't the website a little more intuitive?

74 hits on this and not a comment so far. I would have thought that at least GenePoon would have had something.

That website may well have been designed by a committee. There was no easy to understand way to link the Rewards account to the log in - you had to poke around to find it. It also assumes that you know what station is closest to where you want to go. What I find frustrating is that there is no easy to find statement about rental car availability at a given station. A novice would get very frustrated using the Amtrak site.

John Gezelius
Tustin, CA

poffcapt Wrote:
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> 74 hits on this and not a comment so far. I would
> have thought that at least GenePoon would have had
> something.

===============================================================

He's been on a twelve hour shift with his local public safety agency and just
got home. What's your intended itinerary, particularly since you say it
requires an overnight connection?

Some of the limitation to the Amtrak website arises from the underlying creaky
main computer system (Arrow) which is its "backbone," but the interface through which
you work also has restrictions on it in an attempt to prevent booking undesirable
or unusually circuitouts itineraries. However, not all overnight connections are
suppressed. For instance, itineraries from the south/westbound Crescent to the
westbound Sunset ARE displayed, although there is no warning flag about the
13 1/2 hour connection, and some people are just not going to notice that it is
from 732pm to 900am ("I'm sure they really mean 900pm...").

Nearby hotel and rental car information is in the Stations section in Arrow but it
is unreliable, dependent on local sources which are updated irregularly in many locations.
At that level of reliability it is probably best NOT to make it publicly accessible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/12 00:51 by GenePoon.

Gene, I was looking at Seattle to Burlington, VT, then Burlington to ATL. If I wanted to do the whole thing by train, I believe I would have to spend the night eastbound in NYC or Springfield. The westbound (s'bound) leg would require an overnight in either NYC or WAS.

It is just frustrating that you have to put all of these little details in your inquiry when you are checking it out, instead of being able to say, "leaving Seattle on such-and-such, going to Burlington", and having the website say, "okay, but you are going to have to stay overnight".

While we're at it, what about the inability to display train information if even a small part of its route is altered, like is happening with 4 and 6 today? Surely this can be fixed.

Burlington, while the largest city in Vermont, is essentially at the end of the line, and not linked up well except to Northeast cities. Amtrak.com should be able to show something, but probably can't be expected to show everything. Presumably no one from Burlington or VT has complained. Sometimes complaining helps, as CA was able to get Amtrak to show various connections, generally involving feeder bus connections, that otherwise would not have displayed.

Overnight stays, while required to complete your itinerary, can be planned at various locations, not just high-cost New York or Washington. Those stopovers may, however, have merit in their own right. Springfield MA should work in both directions, as it is the connection point between the Lake Shore Limited and the Vermonter, and also is the first city southbound served by the Vermonter where additional corridor options become available that will allow same-day connections to the Crescent at New York.

You could also consider Albany, NY, as a connecting station in both directions, incorporating a car rental. Hertz, for example, was right in the station the last time I visited ALY.

I won't go into detail about the seasonal ferry from Burlington to Port Kent, NY, a seasonal stop on the Adirondack, as it won't help avoid overnight layovers.

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Burlington, while the largest city in Vermont, is
> essentially at the end of the line, and not linked
> up well except to Northeast cities. Amtrak.com
> should be able to show something, but probably
> can't be expected to show everything. Presumably
> no one from Burlington or VT has complained.
> Sometimes complaining helps, as CA was able to get
> Amtrak to show various connections, generally
> involving feeder bus connections, that otherwise
> would not have displayed.
=======================================================

A good point. That's one shortcoming of the creaky computer structure underlying the Amtrak.com site.
Connections are built MANUALLY, not automatically using programmed connection rules and connection
times, as in airline reservations systems. Used to be, at every schedule change, I had to remind
the programmers about certain Thruway connections that were always omitted, even if times were not
changed at all. It didn't take long, generally only a day or so, to get them restored, but that had
to be done at every single schedule change, whether scheduled/seasonal, or in-between.

============================================

> Overnight stays, while required to complete your
> itinerary, can be planned at various locations,
> not just high-cost New York or Washington. Those
> stopovers may, however, have merit in their own
> right. Springfield MA should work in both
> directions, as it is the connection point between
> the Lake Shore Limited and the Vermonter...

================================================

There USED to be a same-day connection there between the eastbound Lake
Shore and the northbound Vermonter. No more...

=========================================

> You could also consider Albany, NY, as a
> connecting station in both directions,
> incorporating a car rental. Hertz, for example,
> was right in the station the last time I visited
> ALY.

> I won't go into detail about the seasonal ferry
> from Burlington to Port Kent, NY, a seasonal stop
> on the Adirondack, as it won't help avoid
> overnight layovers.

====================================================

Again...there USED TO BE a connection at Schenectady between the eastbound
Lake Shore and the northbound Adirondack, and it was well-patronized. Its loss
was a shame.

The Lake Champlain Ferry ride is worth the time, and was an excellent way to end a
day's travel on the Adirondack, going into Burlington. It is even worth it as a morning or
afternoon roundtrip outing while visiting the area.

An addendum: just so you know, the Vermonter does not actually serve Burlington. Its
stop is in Essex Junction VT., about eight miles from downtown Burlington. You are
on your own for transport between the two. Though it has a passenger platform, Burlington
Union Station has no regularly scheduled passenger service, only "a few dinner trains and
a Mother's Day brunch train to Middlebury planned for 2013," according to Vermont Railway.
This is down from their annual seasonal excursions out of Burlington, several years ago.

Amtrak.com no longer shows Essex Junction, VT as a stop...which is wrong...but this may
be due to yet another limitation of the system.

Amsnag.net, if you haven't tried it, offers at least one advantage over the Amtrak website. You can enter a range of dates which will get you past the "hated error message" IF (and only if) the problem is non-daily service. But with a range of dates, and if your travel dates are flexible, you can often save quite a bit of money since fares often depend on how few spaces are left.

As for hotel and car rental, I think your best bet is to do a search for the info on this site and on the Amtrank discussion forum. If you don't get a hit, post the question. I've found that people are very willing to share their knowledge and I've been very pleased with the hotels they've recommended.

Phil

"Amtrak.com no longer shows Essex Junction, VT as a stop...which is wrong...but this may
be due to yet another limitation of the system."

Yes, I learned that in 2011 when I was trying to plan my 2012 trip. Since my final destination is actually Essex Jct., it was a bit confusing.

GeenPoon said, in part; "The Lake Champlain Ferry ride is worth the time, and was an excellent way to end a day's travel on the Adirondack, going into Burlington. It is even worth it as a morning or
afternoon roundtrip outing while visiting the area."

Indeed, it is. This is the Ferry ADIRONDACK crossing from Port Kent to Burlington in 1999.

The second photo is of me on the ADIRONDACK when I was her captain in 1969.

---

---

phil-s Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amsnag.net, if you haven't tried it, offers at
> least one advantage over the Amtrak website. You
> can enter a range of dates which will get you past
> the "hated error message" IF (and only if) the
> problem is non-daily service. But with a range of
> dates, and if your travel dates are flexible, you
> can often save quite a bit of money since fares
> often depend on how few spaces are left.
>
> As for hotel and car rental, I think your best bet
> is to do a search for the info on this site and on
> the Amtrank discussion forum. If you don't get a
> hit, post the question. I've found that people are
> very willing to share their knowledge and I've
> been very pleased with the hotels they've
> recommended.
>
> Phil


I wasn't familiar with Amsnag.net. I will have to take a look at that. Thanks for the info.

Amtrak really needs to invest in a website usability study or do this testing itself. I believe that frustrations with the current website harm sales.

A usability study can be a simple as gathering a group of people who have not used Amtrak.com and watching and timing them as they are asked to perform certain tasks, such as finding the best connections and fare from Denver to Miami. You note which aspects of the task bring the most problems. (In my case, I have frequent problems with the city input boxes.)

poffcapt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The second photo is of me on the ADIRONDACK when I
> was her captain in 1969.


The Adirondack is a historic boat: built in 1913, she is the oldest double-ended ferry in
service not only on Lake Champlain but in all of North America. She was built in Florida
for service there; was moved to the Philadelphia area; then to New York City and to Chesapeake
Bay. Then she was partly dismantled so she could clear overhead structures on the Champlain
Canal, for the move to Lake Champlain.

It has always been a real thrill to go to the ferry pier and find that my trip will be aboard
the Adirondack. Her hundredth birthday is coming up, on January 15, 2013.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/12 15:13 by GenePoon.

I preferred running the CHAMPLAIN back then. However, I think I will stick with my last boat before retirement as being my favorite; MV PUYALLUP.

I for one never liked how it claimed on No. 4 being late into Flagstaff like 12 minutes late, I look at it arrived 3 minutes early a few weeks ago, someone needs to fix some of the minior glitches that site has!