Passenger Trains > White Pass & Yukon

Are WP&Y employees covered by US Railroad Retirement or the Canadian version?

Mike Root
Madras, OR

shortlineboss Wrote:
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> Are WP&Y employees covered by US Railroad
> Retirement or the Canadian version?

Since they are in the United States I would presume ours but weirder things have happened!

The White Pass has both American and Canadian employees based in their respective countries (they can work across the border, with restrictions) and they would be covered by their own country's systems. The same is true for transport regulations - the US side is governed, generally, by the FRA while the Canadian side by Transport Canada.

why doesn't wp&Y GET BACK INTO FREIGHT BIZ?

Actually, there has been some talk of freight service restoration but, IIRC, folks at the White Pass are asking for a lot of money from US and Candaian governments to help in restoration.

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO

livesteamer Wrote:
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> Actually, there has been some talk of freight
> service restoration but, IIRC, folks at the White
> Pass are asking for a lot of money from US and
> Candaian governments to help in restoration.


Is the highway not cracking up to what it should be? Or is it cracking up?

Having been to Skagway via road, it would appear that with all the tourist traffic on the highway and congestion at the port, all we need is more big trucks. This summer when I was there, I asked several WP&Y employees the question about operating freight trains again. Their answer CONGESTION
We make too much money hauling passengers to have to worry with freight congestion.

Mike Root
Madras, OR

they should go for it, WOW thought easier money money would be freight. RR need to be rebuilt and power reacquired?

shortlineboss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having been to Skagway via road, it would appear
> that with all the tourist traffic on the highway
> and congestion at the port, all we need is more
> big trucks. This summer when I was there, I asked
> several WP&Y employees the question about
> operating freight trains again. Their answer
> CONGESTION
> We make too much money hauling passengers to have
> to worry with freight congestion.

Really?

All they would need to do is run the freight at night.

No tourist trains then. . . .

And, run freight during the non-tourist months.

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO

I rode the WP&YR in 1981 when freight traffic was robust, thanks to the mine at Faro, NWT.

WP&YR crews were based at Whitehorse and Skagway; crew change was Bennett, BC. Operating offices for the railroad were at Skagway, ownership at the time was in Calgary. Go figure that one. Corporate owners were "White Pass Alaska" which also owned the Chevron distributorship in SE Alaska and all the Chevron outlets. Their interest in the railroad was to control the petroleum pipeline on the railroad r-o-w.

Skagway (US) crews were US citizens represented by UTU; their employer was the Pacific & Arctic Railway & Navigation Company. 4-man crews, paying into US RR Retirement.

Whitehorse crews were Canadians, represented by the Teamsters, and their agreement was with the British Yukon Railway Company. 3-man crews. Didn't get the scoop on their retirement, but I would assume it was whatever the Canadian railway workers had.

I was in the mixed train caboose asking these kinds of questions of the friendly Canadian crew. They were quick to point out that it was the White Pass & Yukon ROUTE, not RAILROAD or RAILWAY. "White Pass and Yukon Route" was merely a slogan to describe three corporate entities. Cars were lettered "WP&YR" and sublettered "P&AR&N Co." which was the corporate entity that owned the rolling stock and the US portion of the line. The BC part of the line was the British Columbia-Yukon Railway Co., and the Yukon portion was the above-mentioned British Yukon Railway Company. Cdn crews apparently had the Cdn entity on their paychecks.

My copy of WP&YR Employee timetable #158, (June 1, 1981) effectively spells the corporate setup on the front cover.

Don't know if the three-companies deal exists today, and I don't know if the cars are still sublettered P&AR&N Co.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/12 12:47 by Alco251.

When we rode it in July, I asked a crew member about freight service. The reply was something to the effect that the owner is a "golf course developer" who is quite happy the way things are. Added that said owner seldom visits the property. I have no idea if this is true but was one person's perception.

I rode back in June up to Carcross; my conversation with the crews seemed to indicate that if the White Pass secured government funding to restore rails to Whitehorse, then they just might run some freight service. But, the money had to be from the Canadian government and not the railroad.

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO

Yes, they could run freights at night. Remember, there is little room for switching at Skagway. It appeared the tracks were still by the ore dock. One freight derailment during tourist season would sure foul up the passenger schedule with the cruise lines.

Mike Root
Madras, OR

shortlineboss Wrote:
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> Yes, they could run freights at night. Remember,
> there is little room for switching at Skagway. It
> appeared the tracks were still by the ore dock.
> One freight derailment during tourist season would
> sure foul up the passenger schedule with the
> cruise lines.


If you go back to an early Trains issue in maybe 2003 or so, the cover story was the WP&Y which had just restarted the tourist biz and had something like 33,000 px that year. We took our family on an Alaska cruise in 2006 and spent $900 for the 10 of us to ride the WP&Y tourist train which by then had tracks right out on the docks and was looking to have over 500,000 that year--------and I am sure in the intervening 6 years since we were there, even with a downturn in cruise tourism, they are happily hauling nearly a million each year-------oh,year equals May to September ------at the going rate. Freight? who needs freight?? We were told that the town of Skagway is normally about 900 people except during the cruise season it grows to about 1200 and most everyone is involved in running the railroad tours. Freight? who needs freight?? :-)
C.

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

That is my point. Why give up a good thing hauling passenger.

Mike Root
Madras, OR

CarolVoss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> shortlineboss Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes, they could run freights at night.
> Remember,
> > there is little room for switching at Skagway.
> It
> > appeared the tracks were still by the ore dock.
>
> > One freight derailment during tourist season
> would
> > sure foul up the passenger schedule with the
> > cruise lines.
>
>
> If you go back to an early Trains issue in maybe
> 2003 or so, the cover story was the WP&Y which had
> just restarted the tourist biz and had something
> like 33,000 px that year. We took our family on
> an Alaska cruise in 2006 and spent $900 for the 10
> of us to ride the WP&Y tourist train which by then
> had tracks right out on the docks and was looking
> to have over 500,000 that year--------and I am
> sure in the intervening 6 years since we were
> there, even with a downturn in cruise tourism,
> they are happily hauling nearly a million each
> year-------oh,year equals May to September
> ------at the going rate. Freight? who needs
> freight?? We were told that the town of Skagway
> is normally about 900 people except during the
> cruise season it grows to about 1200 and most
> everyone is involved in running the railroad
> tours. Freight? who needs freight?? :-)
> C.


Everyone involved running the railroad?

I thought they were all running jewelry stores. . . . . . .!!!!

Narniaman Wrote:

> I thought they were all running jewelry stores. .
> . . . . .!!!!


Funny you should say that------------our Alaskan cruise took us to Anchorage, Denali, Skagway, Juneau and Ketchikan and after checking out the towns, it was obvious that jewelry stores full of jewelry from everywhere BUT Alaska was the major industry and my fantasy was that underneath Denali there was a giant jewelry manufacturing plant that supplied all those stores!! Much like all the food in Disneyland for all the restaurants is prepared in a central kitchen under the Pirates of the Caribbean!! :-)
C.

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

Actually, when you have 3-4 cruise ships in Skagway, the population will grow by as much as 6-9,000. Average cruise carries about 2500 pax.

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO