Passenger Trains > What did NJ Transit know, and what did they do about it

The Bergen Record newspaper has a pretty damning article by one of its investigative writers about the events leading up to the disaster that claimed up to a quarter of the agency's rolling stock.

Back in March, NJ Transit David Gillespie told a federal symposium that NJ Transit wasn't concerned about the possibility of rising waters or climate change because we can move these things out of the way when we see trouble coming.

So, the executive directed NJ Transit's planners to skip any analysis of global warming, climate change, etc from an analysis of weather proofing NJ Transit's rail network.

Ironically, the workshop was entitled Adapting to Climate Change.

>>The reason for the omission, Gillespie explained, was that no impact was likely. “The mitigation plan that we have for movable assets — our rolling stock — is that we move it out of harm’s way when something’s coming,” said Gillespie, one of the featured speakers at the symposium titled Adapting to Climate Change. “Generally, we’ve had enough time to do that.”<<

The article goes on to note that the National Weather Service was forecasting 12 foot storm surges, and media outlets noted a high risk of surge flooding on the Hackensack and Passaic Rivers. The Meadowlands Maintenance facility is located on the point where these two rivers join above Newark Bay.<<

The article also mentions that NJ Transit asserts "there wasn't any place considered safe" to move the rail cars. Absolute nonsense. There's a four mile long, elevated segment of the Lackawanna from west of (former) Grove Street station in East Orange with a nice triple track segment. And, space for several (more) electric and diesel sets at Montclair State, also on a largely elevated segment.

Even the equally new PATH yard, a half mile from the MMC and along the river, saw minimal flooding. There's space for four to six NJT train sets adjacent, at CAPE, and more space down line at Linden. My fear is that the rapidly changing weather situation happened on a weekend, when many managers and senior decision makers were not in the office. And, the folks who were left in charge, went to the business contingency book and their recollections of Hurricane Irene, a completely different storm.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/state/other_state_news/Months_before_Sandy_NJ_Transit_dismissed_need_for_climate_risk_study.html

Kind of an NJ Transit....pardon the pun....Watergate.

Tom Y

What did "climate change" have to do with this?

Fritz in HSV, AL

I find it amazing that they continue to defend poor/non decisions. Fact is the they failed the 5 Ps and now we are paying for it and eventually they will pay. I am considering writing a letter to NJT about their/my current fair paid monthly for basically 60% of normal service, dont really expect anything other than expressed concern. They should also look at Metro North experience on the Port Jervis line, and how long they dragged their feet in repairing last year. Ridership still has not recovered. I don't think that the point was so much climate change but that they knew that the MMC was at risk of being flooded from rising sea water or storm urge of say 12'.

I am glad most on this board are taking this position. Over on rr.net, the foamers are abusing anyone and everyone off the board who dares to criticize NJT.

< "when we see trouble coming" >

I guess their fellow with binoculars at Sandy Hook Lighthouse was off that day.

Sandygate ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/12 05:49 by joemvcnj.

navy5717th Wrote:
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> What did "climate change" have to do with this?
>
> Fritz in HSV, AL


I agree with you. If you look back to the 60's storm patterns you can see similar situations. We are entering a like pattern now. A meteorologist was saying that the Pacific and Atlantic weather systems are entering a cycle that will repeat the 60's cycle again.

When you build something (Meadows Maintenance Complex, NJT control center, storage yard) in a swamp, you should be prepared for flooding. SEPTA (aka "INEPTA") knew that Barracks Yard flooded. Nevertheless, they left equipment in the yard over a weekend for Hurricane Irene to damage. NJT is equally culpable.

While it is true that Hurricane Sandy flooding was unprecedented, the Jersey Meadows flood fairly frequently. It doesn't take a genius to realize that rail equipment should be moved to higher ground.

And the moron who sited NJT's control center next to the MMC -- in a swamp -- should be fired. At one point, their backup diesel generator was under eight feet of water!

They made conscious decisions to empty some suburban rail yards (Gladstone, Raritan) of some or all equipment in favor of the Meadowlands fearing inland river breaches, which was not forecasted, or at least very minor to local streets, did not occur, like in Bound Brook.

NJT seems to be of the mentality that the MMC facility is Fort Knox or Iron Mountain.
How stupid can you be to put computer equipment on the first floor of a building in a swamp, next to a river, and near an ocean ?

You can't make up this stuff.

Weinstein's attitude to the media has been of sarcastic cracks ("this is not a Lionel set", "this isn't a disaster TV series"). Let's see him pull these schoolyard stunts in front of a formal hearing, under oath.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/12 07:09 by joemvcnj.

Given Jim Weinstein's personal history with Senator Lautenburg, the hearings should be interesting. Weinstein is the guy who actually pulled the plug (!) on Lautenburg's and Jon Corzine's tunnel to NYC. And, with Bill Baroni, was the subject of the hearing that riled up Mr Lautenburg and Senator Rockefeller. Lots of history there, none of it good.

The state hearings from Assemblyman / Party leader Wisniewski may be more productive, though. The assemblyman has been friendly to rail and bus projects, is well connected to the unions, and has been a supporter of NJ Transit over the years. But a lot of his district was pounded by this storm, and some of his district lost the North Jersey Coast service.

Although he's worked effectively with Governor Christie, he has reason to be tough, and force through some needed accountability.

Stay tuned.

(The next step will likely be some ceremonial middle and upper manager sacrificial offerings, and a bipartisan committee to look at what went wrong. The idea is that no final answers can be given until the committee reports back in 2017, etc...)

Trenton Times editorial NJT puff piece, and no mention of how MN, LIRR, and NYCT got it right

http://www.nj.com/times-opinion/index.ssf/2012/12/opinion_nj_transit_made_best_p.html

As for the author, Matt Stanton served as NJ Transit’s chief of staff from 1999 to 2002. He also spent five years at MTA, now a partner at a public affairs firm in Trenton.

As for Assemblyman Wisniewski, NJT serves at the pleasure of the Governor since its Chairman is the DOT Commissioner.
IOW, the Legislature has no say.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/12 07:59 by joemvcnj.

navy5717th Wrote:
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> What did "climate change" have to do with this?
>
> Fritz in HSV, AL

If you don't know, there is no way to tell you.

navy5717th Wrote:
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> What did "climate change" have to do with this?
>
> Fritz in HSV, AL


Nothing, but apparently they had a conference to discuss plans for if the sea level were to change and dismissed the need to do anything because sea levels change over centuries, not days.

Not real relevant otherwise.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trenton Times editorial NJT puff piece, and no
> mention of how MN, LIRR, and NYCT got it right
>
> http://www.nj.com/times-opinion/index.ssf/2012/12/
> opinion_nj_transit_made_best_p.html
>
> As for the author, Matt Stanton served as NJ
> Transit’s chief of staff from 1999 to 2002. He
> also spent five years at MTA, now a partner at a
> public affairs firm in Trenton.
>
> As for Assemblyman Wisniewski, NJT serves at the
> pleasure of the Governor since its Chairman is the
> DOT Commissioner.
> IOW, the Legislature has no say.

Other than discussing, reviewing, amending, and approving the budget and minor details like that.

The budget is generally a rubber stamp of what the Governor puts forth. When Wisniewski doesn't like it, he whines on News 12 to get credit for sound-bites and impress constituents, then rolls over.

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> navy5717th Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What did "climate change" have to do with this?
>
> >
> > Fritz in HSV, AL
>
>
> Nothing, but apparently they had a conference to
> discuss plans for if the sea level were to change
> and dismissed the need to do anything because sea
> levels change over centuries, not days.
>
> Not real relevant otherwise.


Unless you take into account the fact that relatively-substantial (for places like the NY region anyway) sea level changes are predicted in the coming decades, and musings of discussions of possible contingencies are good long-term planning, particularly for infrastructure-heavy entities.

navy5717th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What did "climate change" have to do with this?
>
> Fritz in HSV, AL

Sea levels in the North Atlantic are several inches higher than 50 years ago. This is a result of artic ice and glaciers melting.

I'm still amazed that PATH's main storage yard, a half mile from the NJ Transit MMC, barely flooded. It's right alongside the same river as the MMC and the also flooded south kearny yard. When they built the PATH a decade ago, the buildings and yards were elevated a feet feet (maybe two or three feet) above the old level, as were other warehouses, the stadium, etc. Made all the difference.

NYC Transit Authority heard the same weather forecasts, looked at the same surge flood projections, and moved trains out of its low lying Coney Island yards, and suffered a loss of something like 8 cars. Same with LIRR.

Anybody who drives on Harrison Avenue in Kearny NJ knows one of the first places to flood in a heavy rain or occasional lunar high tide is at the junction of Harrison Avenue, Fish House Road, and NJ 507. Would anybody like to guess what major buildings and substation are located within a few hundred feet of that point? (HINT: it's not the Post Office Building, which is on an elevated slab nearby)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/12 16:47 by Lackawanna484.

santafedan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> navy5717th Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What did "climate change" have to do with this?
>
> >
> > Fritz in HSV, AL
>
>
> I agree with you. If you look back to the 60's
> storm patterns you can see similar situations. We
> are entering a like pattern now. A meteorologist
> was saying that the Pacific and Atlantic weather
> systems are entering a cycle that will repeat the
> 60's cycle again.

How many times in the 60's did Penn Station flood?

tmurray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> santafedan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > navy5717th Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What did "climate change" have to do with
> this?
> >
> > >
> > > Fritz in HSV, AL
> >
> >
> > I agree with you. If you look back to the 60's
> > storm patterns you can see similar situations.
> We
> > are entering a like pattern now. A
> meteorologist
> > was saying that the Pacific and Atlantic
> weather
> > systems are entering a cycle that will repeat
> the
> > 60's cycle again.
>
> How many times in the 60's did Penn Station flood?

Considering that Penn Station itself did not flood this time either, a more relevant question is how many times have all of the lower East River Tunnels flooded? Almost every on of them. How many times has water risen high enough to enter and flood both the Brooklyn battery and the Queens Midtown Tunnels? Poeple who want to dream on will dream on. There is no help for them :)

Modern recorded human history is such a speck of time in the history of the earth. We don't really know what kind of storms there were prior to 150-200 years ago. We are so arrogant that we think only the last 100 years are relavant in terms of weather patterns. Good grief.