Passenger Trains > New Amtrak station in Altanta

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/amtrak-could-move-next-atlantic-station/nTT5Q/

Thanks for posting the interesting possibility.

While not downtown, it probably could be realized a lot quicker than a downtown station. I hope the design would allow enough track for additional trains and the provision for changing consists. Since the station would be closer to the Howells Interlocking, you'd have the possibility of trains on new routes, if we ever got that advanced down here in the South.

Time for Atlanta to get on with it! In the minds of most metro residents, Atlantic Station is downtown even if it's not technically downtown. It won't have direct access to Marta rail, but that's life.

I'm sure NS will be happy to get standing passenger trains off the main line. Not an ideal site for a Chicago-Atlanta-Florida train, but I doubt there will ever be such a train. A workable site, however, for Atlanta-Macon-Savannah or the other short-distance trains that have been proposed.

Question is, what will be done with the current station?

Actually, JAX to ATL via Sav, up to Fairfax, on to Augusta, and then into Atlanta. Amtrak wont stand a chance of going on CSX from Waycross thru Manchester, and there is no reason for us to go via the NS as it would mean the entire crew base having to get NS rules qual'd. Augusta presents a bigger stop for customers than Macon. And since crews are already qualified as far as Fairfax, it would mean far less new territory to learn. The dark territory though might be an issue.

KV1guy Wrote:
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> Actually, JAX to ATL via Sav, up to Fairfax, on to
> Augusta, and then into Atlanta. Amtrak wont stand
> a chance of going on CSX from Waycross thru
> Manchester, and there is no reason for us to go
> via the NS as it would mean the entire crew base
> having to get NS rules qual'd. Augusta presents a
> bigger stop for customers than Macon. And since
> crews are already qualified as far as Fairfax, it
> would mean far less new territory to learn. The
> dark territory though might be an issue.

No offense, but what a fantasy!

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KV1guy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Actually, JAX to ATL via Sav, up to Fairfax, on
> to
> > Augusta, and then into Atlanta. Amtrak wont
> stand
> > a chance of going on CSX from Waycross thru
> > Manchester, and there is no reason for us to go
> > via the NS as it would mean the entire crew
> base
> > having to get NS rules qual'd. Augusta presents
> a
> > bigger stop for customers than Macon. And
> since
> > crews are already qualified as far as Fairfax,
> it
> > would mean far less new territory to learn.
> The
> > dark territory though might be an issue.
>
> No offense, but what a fantasy!

I dont live in fantasy bud.....its actually one of the routes that has been considered at my crew base. Its all on hold because nothing will work until Atlanta gets an upgraded station.

KV1guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont live in fantasy bud.....its actually one of
> the routes that has been considered at my crew
> base. Its all on hold because nothing will work
> until Atlanta gets an upgraded station.

It's a fantasy to think that enough travel demand exists for such a circuitous route that presumably would be served by one train a day. A lot better places can be found to put our limited resources for passenger rail into.

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Since his plan would involve GA, SC and FL kicking
> in money (I guess SC could forego a stop and avoid
> paying), don't expect to see anything.


I dont care how they fund it, thats not what was being addressed. At the time this was being looked at it was to determine which would be the easiest route and most patronage for a proposed route...under PRIIA. Funding for it was not on the table at the time and would of course have to be addressed at sometime. The route was determined, but since Atlanta can not currently handle any more trains than what it has, the planning for the route has gone no futher.

KV1guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont care how they fund it, thats not what was
> being addressed. At the time this was being
> looked at it was to determine which would be the
> easiest route and most patronage for a proposed
> route...under PRIIA. Funding for it was not on
> the table at the time and would of course have to
> be addressed at sometime. The route was
> determined, but since Atlanta can not currently
> handle any more trains than what it has, the
> planning for the route has gone no futher.

Could you provide me a reference or link to the study? The only PRIIA items I can find regarding new Chicago-Florida service is connecting trains at DC or at New Orleans if Sunset East were to be restored.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/12 11:56 by ts1457.

KV1guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, JAX to ATL via Sav, up to Fairfax, on to
> Augusta, and then into Atlanta. Amtrak wont stand
> a chance of going on CSX from Waycross thru
> Manchester, and there is no reason for us to go
> via the NS as it would mean the entire crew base
> having to get NS rules qual'd. Augusta presents a
> bigger stop for customers than Macon. And since
> crews are already qualified as far as Fairfax, it
> would mean far less new territory to learn. The
> dark territory though might be an issue.

In reviewing this thread, since Amtrak has its own operating crews, they would be qualified for whatever railroad they run on as part of the route. I don't follow your argument here since the operating crews would not be CSX (or NS) employees.

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KV1guy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Actually, JAX to ATL via Sav, up to Fairfax, on
> to
> > Augusta, and then into Atlanta. Amtrak wont
> stand
> > a chance of going on CSX from Waycross thru
> > Manchester, and there is no reason for us to go
> > via the NS as it would mean the entire crew
> base
> > having to get NS rules qual'd. Augusta presents
> a
> > bigger stop for customers than Macon. And
> since
> > crews are already qualified as far as Fairfax,
> it
> > would mean far less new territory to learn.
> The
> > dark territory though might be an issue.
>
> In reviewing this thread, since Amtrak has its own
> operating crews, they would be qualified for
> whatever railroad they run on as part of the
> route. I don't follow your argument here since the
> operating crews would not be CSX (or NS)
> employees.

Sheesh I tell ya. You dont have to talk to me about what Amtrak does with its crews....I should know since I am one. But NONE of the JAX based crews are NS rules qual'd....thats why I said if they found a route they would do their best to keep it off the NS...if feasible. The study was done by some officials here in Jacksonville with Amtrak management. One such manager was working with other local officials in JAX and they did a short study into looking into what would have been some routes for a JAX to ATL train. There is no link anywhere for this. I know it happened as I provided some information to them on it.

All it was, was a get together to study some routes, which they did but didnt go any further with it since Atlanta can not currently handle more trains than what it has now. If ya dont want to believe it, fine.

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (snip)
>
> In reviewing this thread, since Amtrak has its own
> operating crews, they would be qualified for
> whatever railroad they run on as part of the
> route. I don't follow your argument here since the
> operating crews would not be CSX (or NS)
> employees.


But these Amtrak crews would have to learn the NS rules and qualify on the routes that would use NS tracks, etc.

Whether it would be worthwhile to have the entire crew base learn and remain in a qualified state, that would be a lot of effort for one train daily. No way around that.

I'm interested in knowing more about the potential traffic out of Augusta. That would seem like a good population base, not well served by air, etc. Half a million population for the statistical region makes it larger than Savannah, I was surprised to learn.

KV1guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sheesh I tell ya. You dont have to talk to me
> about what Amtrak does with its crews....I should
> know since I am one. But NONE of the JAX based
> crews are NS rules qual'd....thats why I said if
> they found a route they would do their best to
> keep it off the NS...if feasible. The study was
> done by some officials here in Jacksonville with
> Amtrak management. One such manager was working
> with other local officials in JAX and they did a
> short study into looking into what would have been
> some routes for a JAX to ATL train....

Well that confirms what I've been expecting - a back of the envelope study by some superintendent. I've seen a few of those during my railroad days. It's worth about what I thought.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But these Amtrak crews would have to learn the NS
> rules and qualify on the routes that would use NS
> tracks, etc.
>
> Whether it would be worthwhile to have the entire
> crew base learn and remain in a qualified state,
> that would be a lot of effort for one train daily.
> No way around that.

I have to profess my ignorance on this one. Would the entire crew base have to be qualified on NS, or just the ones that hold down that run and those on the extra extra board for it? None the less, I would guess Amtrak has a number of crew bases where the employees are qualified on more than one railroad. This just doesn't seem like a good reason not to go after the best route. If the station in Atlanta goes where they are talking about, an Amtrak crew on a CSX routing might need to be NS qualified for the last mile into the station.

Realistically, for now this is all academic. However if All Aboard Florida is successful, I predict some interesting things could happen in the Southeast that are not foreseen at the present time.

> I'm interested in knowing more about the potential
> traffic out of Augusta. That would seem like a
> good population base, not well served by air, etc.
> Half a million population for the statistical
> region makes it larger than Savannah, I was
> surprised to learn.

At one time, Southern Railway (and connection Pennsy) ran a New York - Augusta train, the Augusta Special. The train earlier was called the Aiken-Augusta Special as Aiken, South Carolina, was a wintering ground for the rich, horsey set. The trouble now is in what direction does the travel demand go. The answer likely is all directions.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/12 20:22 by ts1457.

ts1457 Wrote:

>
> I have to profess my ignorance on this one. Would
> the entire crew base have to be qualified on NS,
> or just the ones that hold down that run and those
> on the extra extra board for it? None the less, I
> would guess Amtrak has a number of crew bases
> where the employees are qualified on more than one
> railroad. This just doesn't seem like a good
> reason not to go after the best route. If the
> station in Atlanta goes where they are talking
> about, an Amtrak crew on a CSX routing might need
> to be NS qualified for the last mile into the
> station.
>

The whole crew base of people that are working on the northend. I dont know how it would end up working. Technically speaking, we already run on the NS....though just for limits of the Elmwood Jct crossovers west of the Columbia SC station. NS controls this interlocking....and the signals are NS. Yet none of us are NS rules qual'd. It's a shame that a long lead couldnt be built off CSX at Howell's to the locale of the new station and just make it rule 96.

KV1guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The whole crew base of people that are working on
> the northend. I dont know how it would end up
> working. Technically speaking, we already run on
> the NS....though just for limits of the Elmwood
> Jct crossovers west of the Columbia SC station.
> NS controls this interlocking....and the signals
> are NS. Yet none of us are NS rules qual'd. It's
> a shame that a long lead couldnt be built off CSX
> at Howell's to the locale of the new station and
> just make it rule 96.

I appreciate it.

I agree about a long lead for the proposed Atlanta station. That would be nice just to stay out of NS's way. I wonder if anyone has seen what the track layout for the station might be? I would hope enough space would be allocated for future needs and some service tracks included nearby.

> Actually, JAX to ATL via Sav, up to Fairfax, on to
> Augusta, and then into Atlanta.

I've actually been over the Georgia RR between Atlanta and Augusta, and I wonder if anyone contemplating this route has. It's 50 mph tops and your teeth are likely to fall out even at that speed. Assuming the train departs from the new Atlantic Steel station site (not the former Union Station) and makes a few stops along the way, count on at least 4:45 running time to Augusta. Oops, there's no station in Augusta anymore, but forget that now. There is prolonged 15 mph (or less) running through Augusta, so I figure it will take 2:00 more to get to Fairfax. Throw in another 1:20 plus however much padding Amtrak would insist on, and you've got at least 8 hours on this route Atlanta-Savannah. The Nancy Hanks II did it in less than six in April 1971. It can be driven in less than four.

This dog don't hunt.