Passenger Trains > OT: Rimrock Trailways shut down by the Feds on 3/23

http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_b13_2/rimrock-passengers-company.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/13 14:28 by joemvcnj.

Triumph of the bus!

Without GL east of Missoula anymore, much of the state now has no bus service. There is not the density to support Megabus either.
Your options are just these from Amtrak into interior Montana:

http://toolecountymt.gov/NTI_Schedule.html

http://ncmtransit.org/routes.html

http://flathead.mt.gov/eagle/

Triumph of the private automobile.

Rimrock provided connecting service at Whitefish MT for those Amtrak passengers traveling to Kalispell, Missoula
and intermediate points. Guess those passengers will have to drive, now.

Other Rimrock routes did not compete with Amtrak in any way. The Empire Builder stands to gain flat nothing
from this shutdown, and as pointed out above, it could lose a few passengers.

Jefferson Lines Expands Montana Service

http://mtndintercity.wordpress.com/

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Triumph of the private automobile.
>
> Rimrock provided connecting service at Whitefish
> MT for those Amtrak passengers traveling to
> Kalispell, Missoula
> and intermediate points. Guess those passengers
> will have to drive, now.
>
> Other Rimrock routes did not compete with Amtrak
> in any way. The Empire Builder stands to gain
> flat nothing
> from this shutdown, and as pointed out above, it
> could lose a few passengers.

Gene,

The private automobile won years ago. What has killed these carriers is about the same as all but mortaly wounded the passenger train in the 50's and 60's. The loss of mail but more importantly "express" UPS and FedEx effectively killed off most of the bus carriers. They all relied on "express". Why do folks think the scenicruiser and its ilk came about? To carry more express. It is a sad tale to be sure.

J.

Sad? No, progress.

What is sad is, as noted, the increased dependence on the automobile this means. In this country we seem to be unable to make any kind of public transportation work. There should be feeder busses all along the EB route, as there would be in Europe.

Besides Jefferson Lines just picking up the route across west to Missoula, it appears Salt Lake Express has just started running east to Bozeman. As the link says above, the Whitefish - Missoula route will be the most difficult to put back.

I have to say, I was not impressed with them last summer. On a rest stop at Butte, they decided at the spur of the moment that a pair of east-west buses should swap, and unless you were right outside when the drivers said it, you would have missed it. They were bad at communicating. At Great Falls, the station agent played dumb with infor about the Toole County Service to Shelby.

Interfacing with the Empire Builder does not look good, and of course $800M - $1B capital outlay for a neo-North Coast Ltd is virtually impossible. Senator Mike Mansfield's state it is no longer.

It was Rimrock that killed service up to Shelby, Cut Bank, Sweetgrass, and a connection to GLC to Calgary around 2004.
GLC has since killed service down to Sweetgrass, although the Toole County bus runs there a few times a week.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/13 16:15 by joemvcnj.

Didn't we go thru this before? No news like old news?

As far as Sweetgrass, couldn't even find a population,uninc. .

Bob

The point is, one can no longer get directly to Calgary/Banff, or Winnipeg for that matter, directly from the states, or anywhere in Canada between Sault Ste Marie and Vancouver by public transit. People do drive down from places like Regina, and take the Empire Builder as a means of getting to Vancouver.

Well, Montana folks pride themselves on their "fierce independence", so why would they need public transit? That takes tax dollars. Taxes are a dirty word up there.

Lurch_in_ABQ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sad? No, progress.

How is this progress?

Shut down for unsafe operation. Good.

Ptolemy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is sad is, as noted, the increased dependence
> on the automobile this means. In this country we
> seem to be unable to make any kind of public
> transportation work. There should be feeder
> busses all along the EB route, as there would be
> in Europe.

Thank goodness we're not Europe! We (Americans) love our cars---nothing wrong with that. Connecting cities in Europe are much closer together than they are here. I can drive for 10 hours and still be in California. In Europe, I could drive for 10 hours and go through 4 or 5 different countries!

coaststarlight99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ptolemy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What is sad is, as noted, the increased
> dependence
> > on the automobile this means. In this country
> we
> > seem to be unable to make any kind of public
> > transportation work. There should be feeder
> > busses all along the EB route, as there would
> be
> > in Europe.
>
> Thank goodness we're not Europe! We (Americans)
> love our cars---nothing wrong with that.
> Connecting cities in Europe are much closer
> together than they are here. I can drive for 10
> hours and still be in California. In Europe, I
> could drive for 10 hours and go through 4 or 5
> different countries!

Population density is 6.86 per square mile, 1 million people total, 48th in US in population density.

I am sure those feeder buses to the once a day rarely on time Builder would be big sellers.

So here is the problem, train is late, how do you work those buses.

Bob

With Whitefish, you spent the night there to catch the bus.
Now what's the alternative ? At 9pm if on time, spend the night anyway, rent a car
or fly to Kalispell and do the same.

c I can drive for 10
> hours and still be in California. In Europe, I
> could drive for 10 hours and go through 4 or 5
> different countries!

Spain is larger than California. Germany is larger than 46 US states.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/13 07:29 by Ptolemy.

coaststarlight99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thank goodness we're not Europe! We (Americans)
> love our cars---nothing wrong with that.
> Connecting cities in Europe are much closer
> together than they are here. I can drive for 10
> hours and still be in California. In Europe, I
> could drive for 10 hours and go through 4 or 5
> different countries!

What's wrong is that you project your mindset onto the many Americans who are unable to own and operate an automobile for physical and/or financial reasons. Additionally, there are many Americans who choose not to own automobiles. Although it is unreasonable to suggest that European-like bus and train frequencies of service should be provided in wide-open states such as Montana, eliminations of limited intercity bus and train service is unreasonable, too.

The high numbers of fatalities and much greater numbers of injuries on America's streets and highways demands more introspective thinking about national transportation policy.

By the way, your citation of California is ironic because it is one of the few states where I can get to many of the places I want to visit without a car thanks to the network of Amtrak trains and connecting buses. It was wonderful to get to Yosemite National Park on a San Joaquin train and connecting bus.

One reason Whitefish is such a busy stop on Amtrak is that it is effectively a hub for access to the more populated southwestern part of Montana, and it is not because they were riding Rimrock buses. They get off the Empire Builder at 10pm or later, rented a car, and drive for hours on strange rural roads to Great Falls or Missoula, often weary-eyed into the night. How civilized, and we take that for acceptable.

Montana was once more populated than today with more Congressional seats. It also had more bus service, 2 trans-continental railroads with passenger trains across the southern part of the state, and they both served Yellowstone Park. Today, The Park has no public transportation at all from its norther entrance. The Empire Builder's alter ego, the Western Star, also ran via Great Falls.