Passenger Trains > Surfliners to become San Diego commuter trains?

The (San Diego) North County Transit District, operator of the Coaster commuter
train service, has presented plans to have some Amtrak Surfliner trains make all
local Coaster station stops between Oceanside and San Diego, seven days a week.

Under the plan, those Surfliners will be rescheduled (slowed down) to make four
extra stops: Carlsbad Village, Carlsbad Poinsettia, Encinitas, and Sorrento Valley;
and for those that don't already stop at Old Town, that stop will be added, too.

Coaster monthly passes are to be honored on all Surfliner trains. Coaster will
pay Amtrak $4.25 per passenger riding the entire distance between Oceanside and
San Diego (regular Coaster fare is $5.50, regular Surfliner fare is $17.00).

The plans were presented to LOSSAN (the governing body which will be taking over
management of the Surfliner trains) in late March.

-GP

***grumble grumble***politicians***grumble***

Bad idea for the corridor as that will probably add 20 minutes to the schedule. In one year we have gone from one extreme of an Express train to the other which is a milk run.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

Train 573 had 11 minutes added to its schedule to remove Laguna Niguel and Orange, and add Old Town, Sorrento, Encinitas, Poinsettia, and Carlsbad.

I'm not a fan of adding stops, I'd really like to remove stops. Backwards step IMO.

.

---

As for Coaster, what's the status to the proposed extension south to Petco Park and north to Camp Pendleton?

Geep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for Coaster, what's the status to the proposed
> extension south to Petco Park and north to Camp
> Pendleton?

=============================================================================

Details of the Camp Pendleton extension were part of the presentation made to LOSSAN in late March. It is still in the works.

Ah the problem with shared control of the busiest West Coast Corridor. If the governing people ran this thing like the NEC, things would probably be much different and smoother, maybe no Acelas, but at least some form of solid reliable service. Instead all we see are repeated flawed experiments.

I think this is a big mistake. "slow trains" are a drag on Amtrak's inter-city growth; and, just when the Surfliners are beginning to make a strong ridership comeback after several years decline.

Why would California want to change inter-city trains into commuter trains; after having spent millions on upgrading the route from LA.

After all, Amtrak shouldn't be in the commuter business; isn't this why they exited the "Clockers" on the NEC?.

Next thing you know, someone will suggest the Acela's make NJT commuter stops.

I hope this isn't a "done deal", and that wiser heads will prevail in California.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/13 07:07 by floridajoe2001.

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I hope this isn't a "done deal", and that wiser
> heads will prevail in California.

====================================================

The big difference here as opposed to the Northeast Corridor: Amtrak owns the NEC and
pays for it, thus can control it. The most heavily-trafficked parts of the Surfliner route
are owned by the counties, with the northern portion owned by Union Pacific with State-county
operating contracts. Effective in the Fall, the State and counties there will be footing the entire
cost of running passenger trains other than the Coast Starlight and for short distances,
the Southwest Chief and Sunset Limited; for which the State and counties will send a bill to
Amtrak.

I think it is a mistake, too; but control over the Surfliners is going to pass to LOSSAN,
whether you or I care or not. LOSSAN officials are appointed by elected officeholders
who are ideally beholden to the people who vote and elect people to public office, not
to some bureaucracy across the country which doesn't really care. Personally I prefer that
"ideal" but wonder as to how well this move would serve that public.

Amtrak sure doesn't care. They're out of it as of Fall, and will be, in effect, a contract train
operator only, with no voice in management. They have already restrung the schedules. It's a
done deal.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/13 08:54 by GenePoon.

To: Geen Poon

Well, Gene, as you describe it, the naysayers should be happy. Amtrak will be out of it; Washington will be out of it; and the States, who are supposed to be so much smarter than the Federal Government, will be running things.

Well, in my view, here is a good example where the State is not so smart after all.

I believe it's time for the naysayers to "re-think" their position that "private" operators; or the States; are ALWAYS better than Amtrak. I'm afraid there are just as many losers at the private and state level. Certainly this development is not a positive thing for Amtrak inter-city.

Joe

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Well, in my view, here is a good example where the State is not so smart after all.


Even the STATE is out of it. LOSSAN is local. The seeds of this change were planted way back
in the 1990s when the Capitols, under constant threat of discontinuance from Amtrak (how about
THAT for lack of foresight from the Northeast-centered Amtrak in Washington?) were placed under
State control, then transferred to management by a locally-constituted Joint Powers Board. At
the time, the same legislation provided for a future spin-off of the other State corridors to
local governing bodies. That has now happened.

The effects can be good. Without the Capitol Corridor JPB, and its politically-skilled General
Manager who had no qualms about going toe-to-toe with Amtrak and Union Pacific, there would be no
Capitol Corridor today. Amtrak would have packed up its toys and gone home to their beloved Northeast.


> I believe it's time for the naysayers to "re-think" their position that "private"
> operators; or the States; are ALWAYS better than Amtrak. I'm afraid there are just as many losers
> at the private and state level. Certainly this development is not a positive thing for Amtrak
> inter-city.


Here, I think you're right, as far as intercity is concerned. The reason why this is happening is that
it is cheaper for San Diego NCTD to pay $4.50 a head (less for shorter stage lengths) for the Surfliners
to carry its passengers than to run more trains of its own. So this could be better for the local
constituency which owns, finances and manages Coaster. What I don't like is the "better for us, hang
everybody else" attitude, both here and in the Northeast-oriented Amtrak.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/13 10:36 by GenePoon.

Yes, Gene, and it seems a crime for Amtrak to accept $4.50 a head also. But, most probably Boardman has no choice--more politics.

So. to those who say they "hate politics", they had better stop caring about passenger rail, which is NOTHING BUT, politics.


Must not get too discouraged, however. Even if Amtrak is hurt by this "political situation"; I understand Obama's new budget will have more passenger rail money it it; so, Amtrak might be helped by this "political situation". You never know. This is the world in which passenger rail lives, and we have to keep fighting.

Joe

Well, if LOSSAN is going to control, then they have to put up the money to make massive improvements needed in the corridor. And since they are local, they can surely come up with the money, much as Northern CA did for San Jose-Sacramento.

Let's start with more equipment, locos, double track, and other capacity improvements.........

I wonder about the load factor on these trains. A Passenger traveling out of SAN to Oceanside pays $4.50. If the train is full, that seat could have gone to a LAX or BUR or SBA passenger paying $45.00. You need ten passengers to make up the revenue, (not counting one or two who may get on in Oceanside and take that seat. If the trains are not full, it doesn't matter. Anyone know what percentage of trains are full between Oceanside and SAN?

Posted from iPhone

In SCTD's presentation to LOSSAN, it was said that the affected Surfliners were ones with below-average load factors.

Doen't Metrolink do the same thing, use Amtrak for some of it's train running? I think that your Metrolink pass can be used on them.