Passenger Trains > .

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/20 19:44 by F40PHR231.

Riverside Line...prior to May 1, 1971, the route of the Union Pacific Domeliner, "City of Los Angeles."

I daresay there is far more built-up land and far less scenic, open country now, then when the same line
was viewed from the "City" dome cars.

More graffiti, now, too.

Wonderful photos and commentary. Thank you very much.

Considering the vibrancy of Metrolink operations there, it's interesting how the Inland Empire (Riverside, San Bernardino and environs) is so ignored by Amtrak California other than a few Thruway buses.

Not one Amtrak California train serves the some 4,000,000 Inland Empire residents, as well as a large university student population. They do not even enjoy a through train to San Diego. Yet daily, two Amtrak California trains originate and terminate in San Luis Obispo, a city with a combined resident and university student population of 64,000, a city that also enjoys Coast Starlight service.

Gene, if you are old enough, you may remember Ronald Reagan as the spokesperson for Union Pacific domeliners in both print and on TV.

Click on the image in the upper left of this Amazon page to see one of the print ads:
http://www.amazon.com/Print-Ad-Pacific-Railroad-Ronald/dp/B005DU3BG2

As you may know, until relatively late in life, President Reagan did not fly. He forced himself to overcome his fears in order to have a chance in national politics.

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Riverside Line...prior to May 1, 1971, the route
> of the Union Pacific Domeliner, "City of Los
> Angeles."

Looks like the canopies at LA Union Station are (again) in need of paint.

F40PHR231 Wrote:
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> 32) Big hole in the ground, don't know its
> background.

There is a gaint hill next to this big hole. It is/was the Milliken Landfill, basically a gaint mound of trash. The "big hole" (not to be confused with the Donner Summit tunnel) is where they got the clean fill dirt to cover the trash. It believe this hole was originally going to be fill in with more trash but various environmental, political and NIMBY resistance resulted in the landfill being closed.

DonNadeau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Considering the vibrancy of Metrolink operations
> there, it's interesting how the Inland Empire
> (Riverside, San Bernardino and environs) is so
> ignored by Amtrak California other than a few
> Thruway buses.
>

Well, unfortunately, you are barking up the wrong tree. Amtrak is not designed to be a commuter railroad, but an intercity transporation railroad. Is there another part of the nation that you can site as an example where Amtrak covers a wide suburban area with multiple lines and schedules? Then there is a sticky part about having to deal with Congress and Federal budget funding for new lines. Oh then there will be the NIMBYs and Enviornmentalists that will have their say in any new proposed line.

No, I would have to say Amtrak California is servering the poplutation centers fairly well, albeit with more frequency would help.

BNSF6400 Wrote:
> is/was the Milliken Landfill, basically a gaint
> mound of trash. It believe this hole was originally going to be
> fill in with more trash but various environmental,
> political and NIMBY resistance resulted in the
> landfill being closed.

Thank you much for the explanation!

DonNadeau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wonderful photos and commentary. Thank you very
> much.
>
> Considering the vibrancy of Metrolink operations
> there, it's interesting how the Inland Empire
> (Riverside, San Bernardino and environs) is so
> ignored by Amtrak California other than a few
> Thruway buses.
>
> Not one Amtrak California train serves the some
> 4,000,000 Inland Empire residents, as well as a
> large university student population. They do not
> even enjoy a through train to San Diego. Yet
> daily, two Amtrak California trains originate and
> terminate in San Luis Obispo, a city with a
> combined resident and university student
> population of 64,000, a city that also enjoys
> Coast Starlight service.


If this had been posted by GenePoon I'd get it, you hitch your wagon to the team that gets changed out and you loose your perks you get pissed. But this I don't get, Amtrak is a longer distance service, and you are taking pictures from and of a suburban rail service that connects with Amtrak a at least a few points, what's the problem?

Excellent job Chris! Felt like I was along for the ride. I enjoyed all the palm trees too!

nice essay

About 10 years ago, I was in LA and had a chance to ride everything Metrolink operates. I thought the Riverside Line was one of the more interesting trips. It has significant freight traffic, good scenery, and not a lot of stops. I found the shared Riverside station, with multiple platforms, interesting. I was also very impressed with the amount of money California has spent on commuter rail.

Correction: the only Metrolink service I didn't ride was the "Inland Empire" service between Anaheim and San Bernardino/Riverside. I'll get that when I'm next out there.

In Photo #33 Chris, That was the Mira Loma Space Center a Ex USAF Supply Depot and in a Previous life where Amtrak Cars were Rebuilt

@GettingShort @jst3751

Somehow you've apparently gotten the idea that I am saying that Amtrak California should take over Metrolink services and provide a suburban service. That is absolutely not true in any way.

What I am saying is that whenever possible Amtrak California should connect the 4,000,000 population of the Inland Empire (not counting university students) to its other services, as well as instituting San Bernardino/Riverside to San Diego, which in no way would be a commuter route and which is not served by through trains run by anyone else. Its over 4,000,000 residents makes the Inland Empire population larger than some 24 states.

There's also the potential of through service San Bernardino/Riverside to San Luis Obispo via Santa Barbara, with onward Amtrak Thruway bus connections to the Bay Area.

In my opinion, Amtrak California should also consider the potential of a daytime San Diego - San Bernardino/Riverside - Lenwood cutoff (Barstow) - Bakersfield - Emeryville service. Before you go all negative on this idea, calculate the incredibly huge university population this would serve. I do not see this train focused on end to end travel but instead on the intermediate communities it would serve. Thus, I am not concerned about end to end running times.

California has the population potential to support additional Amtrak California services. Funding's another matter, but we're not talking here about the capital investment needed for high-speed rail.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/13 18:18 by DonNadeau.

Having been raised in the L.A basin this is a great series of shots and places. I rode on the UP Domeliner as a child and this east side of downtown L.A has changed a lot in the last 3 decades. Now only the Southwest Chief serves this vast population after the Desert Wind went away and that was significantly north of here when it and the SWC operated via Pasadena. The Sunset Limited is late at night and is north of the Riverside lines so a good connection there is not made. Amtrak needs to consider a "Surfliner" style train to go to and from Palm Springs and even better all the way to Phoenix, but the gives rebirth to the issue of the direct track to downtown Phoenix being shut down years ago so Palm Springs or Indio is at least a reasonable hope some day. The Arizona Rail Passenger Association has been on this issue for years and is currently focusing on adding trains to and from Tuscon from Phoenix as well as other "Valley" related rail programs that are being thought over.One such effort they are making is to lobby for the Sunset Limited to go daily, something the old SP dropped before 1971.Maybe Metrolink should consider Palm Springs, but 4 hours without a food service car could be hard for some. Amtrak would at least have Business Class and food service on board.

Phil Blommendahl
Getzville, NY

DonNadeau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @GettingShort @jst3751
>
> Somehow you've apparently gotten the idea that I
> am saying that Amtrak California should take over
> Metrolink services and provide a suburban service.
> That is absolutely not true in any way.
>
> What I am saying is that whenever possible Amtrak
> California should connect the 4,000,000 population
> of the Inland Empire (not counting university
> students) to its other services, as well as
> instituting San Bernardino/Riverside to San Diego,
> which in no way would be a commuter route and
> which is not served by through trains run by
> anyone else. Its over 4,000,000 residents makes
> the Inland Empire population larger than some 24
> states.
>
> There's also the potential of San
> Bernardino/Riverside connection to northbound
> Pacific Surfliners at LA, with onward Amtrak
> Thruway bus connections to the Bay Area.
>
> In my opinion, Amtrak California should also
> consider the potential of a daytime San Diego -
> San Bernardino/Riverside - Lenwood cutoff
> (Barstow) - Bakersfield - Emeryville service.
> Before you go all negative on this idea, calculate
> the incredibly huge university population this
> would serve. I do not see this train focused on
> end to end travel but instead on the intermediate
> communities it would serve. Thus, I am not
> concerned about end to end running times.
>
> California has the population potential to support
> additional Amtrak California services. Funding's
> another matter, but we're not talking here about
> the capital investment needed for high-speed rail.


Unfortunately, there's no railroad available between Barstow and Bakersfield, so that matter is moot until HSR fills that gap.

On the more basic issue, it is possible to visualize an Amtrak service between, say, Santa Barbara, Los Angeles, and Riverside/San Bernardino, or between San Bernardino/Riverside, Orange County, and San Diego. However, capacity for the service would need to be identified and likely paid for, and would compete with existing and planned commuter rail service and freight. And, there is the question of frequency....how useful would one or two daily intercity trains be, when (in some cases) we already have multiple commuter frequencies. It may be that for the moment we would best be served with streamlined connections between the various existing services...avoiding missed connections and facilitating good connections, and the offering of through fare concepts, along with good marketing. Dedicated bus connections can also help fill gaps.

State is trying to find funding for LA-Indio Trains, however UP wants money. This has been on going for at least 15 years, I was involved with two consultants reports.

Palm Springs has for a year now had two Thruway connections to the Surfliners. Bus Indio/Palm Springs/Riverside to Fullerton, then southbound or northbound from Fullerton by train. Doing well on weekends from Riverside.

Train 3 offers connections from Riverside and San Bernardino to the Northbound Starlight, and if 3 is late, Metrolink will honor tickets, with a 7 day a week connection available.

Southbound from the Starlight Metrolink to San Bernardino has connections, however a Metrolink ticket needs to be purchased for the eastbound connection.

Someone said no tracks Barstow-Bakersfield, better look at a map again. Going via Barstow, would add a lot of travel time.

Some 20 years ago, it was suggested that their be two San Joaquin's extend to San Diego, via the UP (SP) cut off from Palmdale, via San Bernardino - Riverside.

But of course SP-UP would have no part of this!

Everyone says Amtrak should do this and that. Please Keep in mind that Amtrak has no money for new service and as of Oct 1, states must pay for service 750 miles or less.

The California Thruway service is paid for by the State of California. Some Amtrak staff is paid by the state to administer the day to day operation. State sets the schedules.

Folks have asked for more schedules on the Riverside line, well UP will be happy to do it for a price, including making the entire line double track.

The Metrolink "Rotan" cars are recommended for double amputees only.

reindeerflame Wrote:

> Unfortunately, there's no railroad available
> between Barstow and Bakersfield, so that matter is
> moot until HSR fills that gap.

Thank you for your reply

Actually, the prime BNSF trans-con to the Bay Area travels Barstow - Mohave - Bakersfield, with UP rights Mohave - Bakersfield. That's one of the reasons it's so fun to railfan the Tehachapi route. BNSF's only other access to the Bay Area is via traffic rights on UP from Denver to I believe the Port of Oakland and onward to near San Jose to make up for the removal of Western Pacific & DRG&W competition .

Lendale Cutoff refers to a connecting track west of Barstow that permits BNSF trains from Southern California to access the Bay Area without using a wye. Look on Google Maps to see how this works.

In reference to as other comments below, Inland Empire service definitely needs more research. I only ask that it be considered.

>
> On the more basic issue, it is possible to
> visualize an Amtrak service between, say, Santa
> Barbara, Los Angeles, and Riverside/San
> Bernardino, or between San Bernardino/Riverside,
> Orange County, and San Diego. However, capacity
> for the service would need to be identified and
> likely paid for, and would compete with existing
> and planned commuter rail service and freight.
> And, there is the question of frequency....how
> useful would one or two daily intercity trains be,
> when (in some cases) we already have multiple
> commuter frequencies. It may be that for the
> moment we would best be served with streamlined
> connections between the various existing
> services...avoiding missed connections and
> facilitating good connections, and the offering of
> through fare concepts, along with good marketing.
> Dedicated bus connections can also help fill gaps.

Don, please write to Cal Trans with your ideas. No one on this board can help on this project.

Its already been studied to death and still being pushed by the folks in the Palm Springs Indio area.