Passenger Trains > Amtrak's Coast Daylight 1971 Q

A few Q's about AMT's Coast Daylight first year of operation:

When did AMT switch L.A.-San Francisco to L.A.-Oakland? Day one?

When did AMT change the name to Coast Starlight? (The name never made sense to me, yes the train ran up the coast, but not by star light. OK, let's not get into the sun being a star)

And, what date did the change the train's numbers from SP's 98/99 to their 12/13(?)

Thanks

Cabhop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few Q's about AMT's Coast Daylight first year of
> operation:
>
> When did AMT switch L.A.-San Francisco to
> L.A.-Oakland? Day one?

Yes.

>
> When did AMT change the name to Coast Starlight?
> (The name never made sense to me, yes the train
> ran up the coast, but not by star light. OK,
> let's not get into the sun being a star)
>
> And, what date did the change the train's numbers
> from SP's 98/99 to their 12/13(?)
>

At first, the San Diego - Seattle train was only tri-weekly. On three other days per week, they added 98/99 "Coast Daylight". To differentiate, on the days the train went through to Seattle, it was the "Coast Starlight".

I would have to dig out my old Amtrak timetables to find out the precise chronology. My vague memory is that on day one, there was only the tri-weekly train. Then at some point not long afterwards, 98/99 were put back on three more days of the week.(Or was it four?) Then, at a subsequent point, the Starlight became daily. There also might have been a lag until names for the trains showed up in the timetables.

Best regards,

Rob L.

Cabhop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few Q's about AMT's Coast Daylight first year of
> operation:
>
> When did AMT switch L.A.-San Francisco to
> L.A.-Oakland? Day one?

Day One, yes. The first day's train out of Oakland was pulled by something like five SP F-units!

>
> When did AMT change the name to Coast Starlight?
> (The name never made sense to me, yes the train
> ran up the coast, but not by star light. OK,
> let's not get into the sun being a star)
>
> And, what date did the change the train's numbers
> from SP's 98/99 to their 12/13(?)


In the Amtrak public timetable, the first appearance of train numbers 12-13 for the Oakland-Los Angeles service was November 14, 1971. At the same timetable change, the Coast Starlight name was given to the triweekly Seattle-Los Angeles Train 11-12 /13-14 which ran overnight north of Oakland, to distinguish it from the quad-weekly Oakland-Los Angeles which was dubbed the Coast Daylight. Prior to that the trains were nameless in the Amtrak national timetable.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/14 22:00 by GenePoon.

Cabhop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few Q's about AMT's Coast Daylight first year of
> operation:
>
> When did AMT switch L.A.-San Francisco to
> L.A.-Oakland? Day one?

Yes

> When did AMT change the name to Coast Starlight?
> (The name never made sense to me, yes the train
> ran up the coast, but not by star light. OK,
> let's not get into the sun being a star)

The original name was the Coast Starlight/Daylight. The name was shortened to simply Coast Starlight on 5/19/74.

> And, what date did the change the train's numbers
> from SP's 98/99 to their 12/13(?)

Day 1.

Bob

The day one numbers were 98/99 for the Oakland-LA train, and 11/12 for the Seattle-San Diego train. Here's a link to the day one timetable: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19710501&item=0028

The 11-12 and 13-14 numbering was introduced 11/14/71, as mentioned above. Timetable page here: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19711114&item=0069



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/14 23:28 by clem.

where there through cars to Vancouver BC? or am I just crazy? probably the latter.

No thru cars to Vancouver. For a brief period there were thru cars from San Diego to Seattle.

While the first Amtrak system timetable showed the LA-San Diego connection to the LA-Seattle train as Numbers 11 & 12, they actually ran as Nos. 79 & 80. Local timetables for the LA-San Diego service showed those numbers. In November 1971, the trains were renumbered 12 & 13 to reflect the numbers of the LA-Seattle trains that began to show numbers 12 & 13 between LA and Oakland..

The SP operated both the LA-Oakland trains and the LA-Seattle trains as Nos. 98 & 99 in the early days of Amtrak after it issue new employee timetables, on the LA Division on May 16, 1971.

Cliff

Until a new ETT was issued in late May, 1971, 98/99 ran extra down the Coast with a schedule order. The train order ended with "Do not delay"

I was working out of SLO then and don't remember it being cut to 3 days a week. "Nuts & Bolts" Al Dillon held down one job and "Moose" Martin held down the other since the Lark was pulled off. It was called "The Thin Wallet Job" because you spent almost what you made on meals, etc. When they pulled the pin, Bob Swanson held one run and Jack Sween held the other. They only went SLO to Santa Barb and back. Elsewhere they had crews from Oakland to SLO and LA to SBA & return. These were all SP engineers for years until Atk started hiring their own engine crews.

Back then we did have the "Sunset" train 3 days a week. They would just tack on extra cars and an engine or two and ran thru LA and on to New Orleans.


Nudge

It's interesting to see how the train has become slower over the years.

Between Los Angeles and Oakland, it now takes about 1 hour longer than in 1971.

Between Los Angeles and Seattle, it now takes about 3 hours, 20 minutes longer than in 1971. Perhaps 45 minutes of this is due to the rerouting through Sacramento and Chico in 1982.

Slower trains for a smoother ride...it's your Amtrak at work.

Actually, we should be glad they're still rumbling along.

Note that in Clem's 1971 public timetable
the 98/99 numbers are shown backwards--
train 99 running Oakland to LA. As I recall
the 16 May empl TT showed the numbers
you'd expect-- 98 Oakland to LA.

When it was 98/99 south of Oakland, suspect in
the empl TT it was 11/12 north of Oakland,
until the Nov 71 change.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/14 11:00 by timz.

Went OA-SJ-SLO-SB-LA until the summer of 1974. Interestingly, freights stopped changing at SJ and SB in the Summer of 1972, but Amtrak kept the short runs. In June, 1974, everyone went long.. OA-SLO, SLO-LA, OA-SPKS
Trainmen OA-KFS, Enginemen OA-Dunsmuir.

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's interesting to see how the train has become
> slower over the years.
>
> Between Los Angeles and Oakland, it now takes
> about 1 hour longer than in 1971.
>
> Between Los Angeles and Seattle, it now takes
> about 3 hours, 20 minutes longer than in 1971.
> Perhaps 45 minutes of this is due to the rerouting
> through Sacramento and Chico in 1982.
>
> Slower trains for a smoother ride...it's your
> Amtrak at work.
>
> Actually, we should be glad they're still rumbling
> along.

The slowdowns are pretty well spread out over the route. A quick comparison between the current schedule and the July 1971 timetable shows running times between specific points are no longer symmetric due to padding and meets with other passenger trains when going against the prevailing flow of traffic (evenings into LA for example). Lowlights include 25-40 minutes longer SEA-PDX, 2-23 minutes longer PDX - EUG, 37-59 mins longer Redding - OAK/EMY (now via SAC), 49-97 mins longer SJC-SBA, and 18-46 mins longer SBA-LAX. Also, station dwell times are extended, and new longer stops added at EMY and SAC. The good news is that one of the major causes for both the slower schedule and likely less dependable timekeeping is significant increase in the number of passenger trains running on much of the Starlight route.

Dave

SP also reduced its speed limit from 79 to 70 and didn't move it back until the 80s