Passenger Trains > Amtrak on NS B-line in Virginia

Normally freight-only, a two-car Amtrak train heading west passed by Linden, VA on the Norfolk Southern b-line at noon today. Train ID/destination unknown.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/14 10:24 by 5-String.

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Thanks for posting. That is curious. I hope someone knows the reason for the train and will share it.

What a scenic line!

Can someone advise what is the B-Line. Major points on the line.

Unable to locate.

The B-line is the NS connection between the Valley line, old N&W, at Front Royal, VA to the old Southern at Manassas. It is now an important route for trains coming from Pennsylvania headed south.

Sharon Evans
Glen Allen, VA

Thanks much.

RNinRVR Wrote:
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> The B-line is the NS connection between the Valley
> line, old N&W, at Front Royal, VA to the old
> Southern at Manassas. It is now an important route
> for trains coming from Pennsylvania headed south.

The B-Line was a Southern Railway branch. I've never heard it called the B-Line until now.

Common term for it among railfans here.

Sharon Evans
Glen Allen, VA

Thanks Sharon for adding the line details. In other news, the train is headed back east towards Manassas... passed Markham at 12:48p. Apparently turned at Riverton Jct.

1. Linden, Va
2. Markham, Va



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/14 13:29 by 5-String.

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Actually, this is the old Southern branch, only when Potomac Yard closed, NS used it to bypass WDC (Pot Yard) to interchange with Conrail. Now that NS controls the old PRR in Harrisburg, it is now part of the main line between Harrisburg and the south (Southern main). All mile posts are listed with a B prefix.

Rode this line behind Sou steam. A nice grade to make any loco work.

Posted from Android

ddavies is correct. In Southern days (and continuing today under NS) the Main Line between Washington, Atlanta, Birmingham and New Orleans didn't have letter prefixes for mileposts in the employee timetable. Washington Union Station was MP 0 (even though Southern ended in Alexandria), Atlanta was MP 633, etc. But all other "branches" had letter prefixes. The "B" Line was the branch between Manassas, on the main line, and Front Royal, Strasburg, VA, and Harrisonburg, VA, back then the south end of the branch. The line between Greensboro, Raleigh and Goldsboro, NC (used today by Amtrak between Selma, Raleigh and Greensboro) was and remains the "H" Line. The Salisbury-Asheville line over Blue Ridge Mountain was/is the "S" Line. The line between Charlotte, Columbia and Augusta, GA, was/is the "R" Line. And so on.

The ex-Southern B Line was a sleepy little branch which had a local a day and some occasional steam excursions until the Conrail/Amtrak collision at Chase, MD, in 1987. Amtrak imposed severe freight limitations on Conrail's use of the NEC, and Conrail/NS moved their interchange from Potomac Yard to Hagerstown, MD, while Conrail freight interchanged with CSX (former RF&P and C&O) was actually operated on the CSX line that parallels the NEC between Philadelphia and Potomac Yard.

The Conrail/NS freight moved on Conrail between points north and Enola and Hagerstorn, then on NS between Hagerstorn and Manassas via the ex-N&W Shenandoah Valley Line between Hagerstorn and Front Royal and the ex-Southern "B" Line between Front Royal and Manassas, where it rejoined the NS main line.

The B Line between Manassas and Front Royal is about 45 miles, was dark railroad, maybe one siding, and was not at all suited for main-line freight service. Slowly, NS upgraded it with a new siding or two, lengthened sidings, then CTC "islands" at the sidings, then an improved connection at Front Royal and I believe they just completed CTC across the line in 2012. Perhaps someone local can weigh in with more up-to-date information.

Add to the list the old N&W Hagerstown line now called the 'H' line with the 'H' in front of the numbers on the posts.

Sharon Evans
Glen Allen, VA

Southern also used letter suffixes on some lines. What's now called the Navair district is the former line from Valdosta (151B) to Palatka. The line ends now at Navair, 216B, just south of Lake City.

Just to make things more confusing: when Southern acquired the Central of Georgia, it inherited another set of milepost prefixes. The CofG B-line ran from the mainline at Barnesville to Thomaston. It remains in service as NS mileposts B233 through B249.

Similarly, Southern had a line with an H suffix (the very important line Chattanooga-Atlanta-Macon-Brunswick) and the CofG had one with an H prefix (to Montgomery).

Point is, even before the N+W/Southern merger, when somebody said "B" line or "H" line within Southern, they had to explain further unless the context was obvious.

So no ideas on why a non- revenue Amtrak used the NS B-Line today? Is second car a lounge car?

I see that VRE has done studies on using the first 11 miles of the B-Line from Manassas to Haymarket for commuter service. But not Amtrak.

Would it be normal for today's train to need a NS crew to travel non-Amtrak route? Or at least an engineer?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/14 13:54 by WillRan.

This special is a FEMA train going from Washington DC to Front Royal Va and return. FEMA has run specials out of DC to Duffields WVa and return over the CSX route for the past 4 years. These specials are run once a year to test for emergency management evacuations of high government officials in case something big time would take place in DC. The Martinsburg WVa/Front Royal Va area has been selected by the government for this sole purpose because there's many secret hideouts in this area that perpertrators cannot get to.

WillRan Wrote:
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> So no ideas on why a non- revenue Amtrak used the
> NS B-Line today? Is second car a lounge car?
>
> I see that VRE has done studies on using the
> first 11 miles of the B-Line from Manassas to
> Haymarket for commuter service. But not Amtrak.
>
> Would it be normal for today's train to need a NS
> crew to travel non-Amtrak route? Or at least an
> engineer?

I believe an NS pilot would've been onboard with the Amtrak crew. Amtrak is expected to extend service to Roanoke in a couple of years, but everyone expects that service to go via Charlottesville and Lynchburg... plus the train today turned at Riverton Jct and did not go to Roanoke...

There were a couple of us talking here on Trainorders recently about a way to reroute the Cardinal this way through Riverton Jct and down the former N&W Valley line to Waynesboro... but again today's train didn't go to Waynesboro... so it is quite the mystery...

[edit: mystery solved - see above post in thread]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/14 17:54 by 5-String.

This line was originally the Manassas Gap Railroad, a very historic line which has strong connections to the Civil War. This link has interesting details

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manassas_Gap_Railroad

Also with the increased traffic on the B-line the surrounding highways are being adjusted to fit. VA 28 in Manassas is now an overpass over the tracks and there is a huge ongoing project in Gainesville to carry US29 and some local/state roads over the tracks as well. I don't know about work further west. VA 28 crossed at grade just west of the wye where the B line split off the main to DC and it took forever for trains to clear the road. Gainesville was a disaster due to road angles, traffic lights backing vehicles onto the tracks, increased vehicle traffic due to suburbanization, and increased rail traffic. Train-vehicle crashes were pretty common out there.
Clarence

Clarence Wrote:
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> Also with the increased traffic on the B-line the
> surrounding highways are being adjusted to fit. VA
> 28 in Manassas is now an overpass over the tracks
> and there is a huge ongoing project in Gainesville
> to carry US29 and some local/state roads over the
> tracks as well. I don't know about work further
> west. VA 28 crossed at grade just west of the wye
> where the B line split off the main to DC and it
> took forever for trains to clear the road.
> Gainesville was a disaster due to road angles,
> traffic lights backing vehicles onto the tracks,
> increased vehicle traffic due to suburbanization,
> and increased rail traffic. Train-vehicle crashes
> were pretty common out there.
>

Glad to hear of these improvements. The Route 29 overpass in Gainesville is long overdue. Thanks to Sharon Evans and other for cluing me in re: the names of various NS lines.

amanwtf Wrote:
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> This special is a FEMA train going from Washington
> DC to Front Royal Va and return. FEMA has run
> specials out of DC to Duffields WVa and return
> over the CSX route for the past 4 years. These
> specials are run once a year to test for emergency
> management evacuations of high government
> officials in case something big time would take
> place in DC. The Martinsburg WVa/Front Royal Va
> area has been selected by the government for this
> sole purpose because there's many secret hideouts
> in this area that perpertrators cannot get to.

Is there a plan to evacute government officials to rural Virgina on Amtrak? Hope they're not in a hurry. Or expecting to enjoy a wine and cheese tasting en route. :-)

Dave