Passenger Trains > Empire Builder: couldn't make this up if you tried

Train 1008(15), the first eastbound Empire Builder to leave the west coast on
the new stretched out schedule (3 hours earlier out of Seattle-Portland) reached
Minot last night about an hour and a half early, thus leaving its passengers to
cool their heels viewing the area destroyed by floods three years ago and wonder
why they were standing still for 90 minutes. But they didn't get under way in 90
minutes. Instead, train 1008(15) actually left Minot at 8:53, 51 minutes late,
after a wait of 2:11 standing still in Minot and blocking BNSF's main track
there, although there is a passing track at the Minot depot.

I'm understanding that while 1008(15) stood still in Minot, quite a number
of BNSF eastbounds overtook it.

Train 1008(15), despite its three hour "head start" and the long sojourn at Minot,
this morning is--as most Empire Builders since Christmas of 2012 have been--three
hours and 20 minutes late--as against even the new slow schedule.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

And it's not just the eastbound. No. 7(15), the first westbound on the new extra-padded
schedule, is this morning five hours and 41 minutes late, and 7(16) a mere two hours
32 minutes late, on the new schedule.

Joe Boardman's comment: "What? We have trains in Montana? What for? Why wasn't I told about this?" <G>



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/14 15:27 by GenePoon.

So, any reason why they were late leaving Minot???


Bob

And this is Amtrak's fault how??

Why does it have to be Amtrak's "fault". The fact is - it (the new schedule) is not going to help - BNSF & CN will delay the train so that it is *STILL* 3-5 hours (average) late. Whether Amtrak can do anything about it is rather moot, as the fact is - it has, and will continue to be later and later. There are zero incentives to run the train on time, the schedules are *NOT* guaranteed, they are "suggestions" and the freight railroads make a mockery of it. And will continue to do so as there is absolutely NOTHING Amtrak can - or, from all appearances - would - do about it.


chess Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And this is Amtrak's fault how??

Exactly my point. Agree with you 100%. This story is not anything new, so I'm not sure what people are expecting..

rswebber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fact is - it (the new schedule) is not going to help - BNSF & CN will delay the train so that it
> is *STILL* 3-5 hours (average) late.

Good guess - 1008(15) just arrived Chicago at 7:58 p.m. CT, 4 hrs 3 mins late. (That's CP, not CN, btw.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/14 18:26 by illini73.

What is train 1008?

I give little credence to anyone blaming Amtrak for the tragic things happening to the Builder (formerly one of Amtrak's best timekeepers).

It's been a disaster for Amtrak, but the BNSF is just overwhelmed by the new Oil traffic.

I believe Mica's old committee is going to hold a hearing on the situation to see if they can help somehow. This could be helpful (at least they're not holding hearings on Amtrak hamburgers anymore).

Joe

1976 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is train 1008?

===========================================================

On the first day of the new schedule, the eastbound Empire Builder was given the number 1008 to
avoid duplicate entries in the computer system (i.e., some stations having two "Train 8" departing
on the same date at different times). Same thing, a "10" added to ahead of the regular train
number, happens on Daylight/Standard changeover days.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/14 20:05 by GenePoon.

Joe Boardman's comment: "What? We have trains in Montana? What for? Why wasn't I told about this?" <G>

Yeah right.

Most predicted the new schedule of the Empire Builder would not help. And so far - that has come true since the train started operating on the new schedule. OTP (for what it's worth) was actually improving somewhat with the schedules just before the change. Now it's gotten worse. Perhaps some wrinkles need to get overcome on the new schedule, but I doubt it. This train is still going to run late regardless. And the train was 4 hours+ late with 3 hours of padding. Go figure.....

Go back to the old schedule, restore broken connections in the West, provide at least a nice view eastbound through Glacier National Park, and only guarantee connections to the East on the Lake Shore till things improve. Time will tell!

I suspect delays at MOT are waiting for rested crews.
I'm sure BNSF signed off on the revised schedule and
probably had a big hand in its design.
It looks like CP is having its own problems. Can we blame
all of this on EHH?

I think the E-B schedule needs radical surgery:

#7 Leave CHI 2 hour sooner, arrive Havre and west 4 hours later
#8 Leave west coast 8 hours later, arrive MSP and CHI 14 hours later (at day break).

Stage the 6th set of equipment in Chicago.

Naw, I blame it all on Obamacare.

Seriously - I am not attacking Amtrak - I continue to take it when I don't care about timekeeping. That is the crux. It (the EB) has become an undependable (at least in terms of making the scheduled arrival time - otw, it *IS* dependable - dependably late).

Is that attacking Amtrak? Hardly, it is stating a fact. Is it being negative? Probably, but it is being realistic and factual. Is it Amtrak's fault? In most ways, not on the surface. Once the Supremes killed off the penalty phase, there is absolutely no way for Amtrak to make incentives - that work! - to freight railroads to ensure on scheduled performance.

If the schedule is suggestion only, then that *SHOULD* be explained in bold letters somewhere in the ticketing process. Doing otherwise, will allow passengers to think that the schedule is indicative of a probable arrival time, and they make plans accordingly.

So, in terms of Amtrak - yeah, they dropped the ball a few times - not gaining political AND industry clout in order to rectify the scheduling, and not informing passengers that the schedule is indeed a crapshoot and there is nothing that is guaranteed, or indeed, even probable (in terms of arrival time).

I would take the EB without hesitation - but my circumstances are different than most (my terminal location is also Amtrak's). But the reason a few of us harp on this is simple - a lot of people use "cruise trains" as a pejorative. The EB is touted as - and should be - reliable transportation. It is often the only public transportation in many areas it covers. When routes come up for review, and the EB comes up, the response could well be "well, that's basically a cruise train, not important".

I don't have a knee-jerk reaction either way - if it came in on time - or even close to on time several times a week, I'd not say a thing about it, unless there was something good to be said. BUT - being unable to meet schedules with 4 hours of padding is beyond the ridiculous. Obviously something else *MUST* be done. For those who are knee-jerk Amtrak supporters - consider this: is your continued blind support encouraging this type of non-performance?

If the results of the next two elections come out as some predict, then even the possibility of state supported segments goes away - Quinn losing in Illinois would likely mean that state support of passenger trains in Illinois will cease. I have seen nothing in Amtrak's (or the fright railroad's) performance to indicate that the concept of no LD trains in 2016 is wrong.



The_Chief_Way Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Can
> we blame
> all of this on EHH?

1976 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is train 1008?

In addition to GenePoon's answer above, it should be noted that back in the Burlington Northern days, every freight train had a number, so to keep Amtrak No. 7 and No. 8 from being confused with Freight Trains No. 7 and No. 8, the Burlington Northern added 1000 to any Amtrak trains. Thus Amtrak No. 8 would be called 1008, Amtrak No. 7 was 1007 and so on. Even today, with freight train numbers long replaced by BNSF symbols, many employees on the old BN territory still call the Empire Builder, trains 1007 and 1008. Traditions and habits die hard on the railroad.

May 31sT is still a long ways away, I'm gonna be glad when that happens because from what one of the guys posted, yeah timekeeping has been improving slowly! And I'm sorry Gene, but your comment with Boardman? Give me a break!!!!

Today's #8 - 3:46 late - so far.

2nd day of 4 hours of padding, 2nd day of approx. 4 hours late.

Vacuums are abhorrent in nature, so too is the EB schedule - nature (or the BNSF/CP) will never allow it to be on schedule (except for, perhaps, Sundays and Holidays).

rswebber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Today's #8 - 3:46 late - so far.
>
> 2nd day of 4 hours of padding, 2nd day of approx.
> 4 hours late.
>
> Vacuums are abhorrent in nature, so too is the EB
> schedule - nature (or the BNSF/CP) will never
> allow it to be on schedule (except for, perhaps,
> Sundays and Holidays).

Well, the really bad part is this new Empire Builder schedule wrecks connections on the West Coast, and the schedule has made no marked improvement. It also puts #8 into the Glacier Park area at unfriendly passenger hours - and at that point in the route, the train is still running on time. Get rid of this schedule for #8, only guarantee connection with the Lake Shore to the East Coast etc.

was on 27 Wednesday out of Chicago, we were on time until portage when we sat for 1 hour for eb oil train on cp then we lost 1 hr 15 min into Minneapolis because of weather 8 in of snow on top of ice. we lost over 2 hrs between fargo and minot on garnd forks sub because of track conditions because of spring thaw and high water. lost another hour 6 miles east of havre after fr8 in front dumped its air and couldn't build it back up. lost another hour when 5 private cars were added not sure of place but guess Kalispell trip still better than flying or a bus when were running on bnsf all freights were in hole waiting on us.