Passenger Trains > Remember the "Vegas Talgo?"

In 1999, two years after the Desert Wind had been terminated, Amtrak planned to reinstate service between Los Angeles, CA and Las Vegas, NV with a set of Talgo equipment. The set was tacked onto Washington State's Talgo order for their Cascades services and had the same "batmobile" fins on each end, but was painted blue and silver to match the Surfliner F59's that were supposed to pull it.

http://www.trainweb.com/news/1999l01b.html

The new service never came to pass, and the "Vegas Talgo" set was eventually sold to Washington, where it was given the name "Mt. Adams" and painted like the other Cascades sets.

Back June 1999, the Vegas Talgo equipment visited northern California for a demonstration run to promote another proposed service that has yet to materialize: regional passenger service to Monterey. The Transportation Agency for Monterey County sponsored the run from San Francisco to Ft. Ord on the Monterey Branch, reportedly the last time the branch saw flanged wheels before UP removed the junction switch at Castroville. The video shows the demonstration train, sandwiched by F59PHI's 459 and 456, departing San Francisco and arriving and departing San Jose (for some reason I decided not to follow it further south).

Four days later, F59 456 was again tapped for special duty. It left Oakland bound for Sacramento pulling a bizarre assemblage of passenger equipment including a Superliner lounge, private car Virginia City, an Amtrak California coach, and an abbreviated 5-car set of Talgo equipment, all destined for display at Railfair '99 at the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento, CA. I caught the train at "Control Point RV004 34th Street" between Oakland and Emeryville.

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I was assigned the "fireman" position on the Vegas Talgo trip. The engineer was Bob Bressler. I ran L.A. to Yermo and he ran Yermo to Vegas. Every Amtrak official on the West Coast was on that trip. In your video it looks like one of the men in the suits was Jim Bates, one of the best guys at Amtrak.

Nice video. I had never heard of proposed rail service to Monterey as early as 1999, I know that there's some talk about it now but, if it used the old alignment (which is now a bike trail through a beachfront park), it would run into massive opposition.

And by the way, I'm pretty sure that the Vegas Talgo became the "Mt. Olympus" Cascades set, not Mt. Adams.

Tor in Eugene

Are my eyes deceiving me? Are those single axle trucks between units on the Talgo?
David

Yes. Single axle.

---

Torisgod Wrote:

> Nice video. I had never heard of proposed rail
> service to Monterey as early as 1999, I know that
> there's some talk about it now but, if it used the
> old alignment (which is now a bike trail through a
> beachfront park), it would run into massive
> opposition.

Even in 1999, rail was only in place as far as Sand City.

> And by the way, I'm pretty sure that the Vegas
> Talgo became the "Mt. Olympus" Cascades set, not
> Mt. Adams.

There's probably been some shuffling of cars between sets over the years, but these indicate the Vegas set became "Mt. Adams" when it was repainted in 2004:

http://www.on-track-on-line.com/amtk-roster-trainsets.shtml
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,814807
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,1047542,1048397#msg-1048397

grahamline Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. Single axle.


Technically they aren't even trucks.

kd0r Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are my eyes deceiving me? Are those single axle
> trucks between units on the Talgo?
> David

Actually no axle. Each wheel is attached to the base of columns that form part of an arch-shaped suspension assembly of similar height to the cars. The car body ends are suspended from the top of this assembly, giving the Talgo its pendular tilt capability. The separate wheel assemblies are said to be advantageous in reducing friction on curves.

Dave



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/14 08:35 by DavidP.

The look sharp in that color scheme. I suppose that the genesis for
the Northwest paint scheme came from both the 59's and this demostra-
tion set? Or was the demonstrator based on an existent Northwest
paint scheme by then?

'Shame it never happened.

Then again, considering the look of the new Talgo cab cars, maybe it's
not a bad thing!

/Mitch

Mgoldman Wrote:

> The look sharp in that color scheme. I suppose that the genesis for
> the Northwest paint scheme came from both the 59's and this demostra-
> tion set? Or was the demonstrator based on an existent Northwest
> paint scheme by then?

The Surfliner and Cascades schemes came on the scene more or less simultaneously in 1998 as F59PHI's 450-470 were delivered (450-465 in blue/silver, 466-470 in beige/green/brown), and I'm not sure either one can claim to have inspired the other.

Torisgod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice video. I had never heard of proposed rail
> service to Monterey as early as 1999, I know that
> there's some talk about it now but, if it used the
> old alignment (which is now a bike trail through a
> beachfront park), it would run into massive
> opposition.
>
> And by the way, I'm pretty sure that the Vegas
> Talgo became the "Mt. Olympus" Cascades set, not
> Mt. Adams.
>
> Tor in Eugene

Someone at TAMC (Transportation Agency of Monterey County) majorly pulled the wool over the UP's eyes, got them to spread some clean ballast over a portion of the tracks at Fort Ord and set up s staging area for demo rides. The got the Talgo trainset out on the branch track and quickly reaalized that there were some huge stability issues so they inched the train down the track to the staging area and had to forego the demo rides due to the track condition and then inched the train back up the branch to the mainline. Within days, UP removed the switch and not a wheel has touched the rails since. The branch track ends at the Costco parking lot in Sand City.

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/14 09:39 by CarolVoss.

Mgoldman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The look sharp in that color scheme. I suppose
> that the genesis for
> the Northwest paint scheme came from both the 59's
> and this demostra-
> tion set? Or was the demonstrator based on an
> existent Northwest
> paint scheme by then?

The design of the paint scheme for both the Surfliner and the Cascades was done by Cesar Vergara who was the chief designer at the Amtrak Design Group at that time.

Posted from iPhone

Ricky Courtney
Seattle, WA

nice vids Evan

CarolVoss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Torisgod Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nice video. I had never heard of proposed rail
> > service to Monterey as early as 1999, I know
> that
> > there's some talk about it now but, if it used
> the
> > old alignment (which is now a bike trail through
> a
> > beachfront park), it would run into massive
> > opposition.
> >
> > And by the way, I'm pretty sure that the Vegas
> > Talgo became the "Mt. Olympus" Cascades set,
> not
> > Mt. Adams.
> >
> > Tor in Eugene
>
> Someone at TAMC (Transportation Agency of Monterey
> County) majorly pulled the wool over the UP's
> eyes, got them to spread some clean ballast over a
> portion of the tracks at Fort Ord and set up s
> staging area for demo rides. The got the Talgo
> trainset out on the branch track and quickly
> reaalized that there were some huge stability
> issues so they inched the train down the track to
> the staging area and had to forego the demo rides
> due to the track condition and then inched the
> train back up the branch to the mainline. Within
> days, UP removed the switch and not a wheel has
> touched the rails since. The branch track ends at
> the Costco parking lot in Sand City.

Carol is there ANY future chance of Monterey getting passenger service or are the locals satisfied with driving and bussing arrangement

I rode a demo from DC to Baltimore in the early 1980s... nice train but rode a little rough...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

Whistle Pig...are you aware that Jim Bates is no longer with us. Ed

Nice video man, and it wasn't a big hope on my end when they announced it and it never came to pass, see the Amtrak America 1998 or 99!

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nice vids Evan
>
> CarolVoss Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Torisgod Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Nice video. I had never heard of proposed
> rail
> > > service to Monterey as early as 1999, I know
> > that
> > > there's some talk about it now but, if it
> used
> > the
> > > old alignment (which is now a bike trail
> through
> > a
> > > beachfront park), it would run into massive
> > > opposition.
> > >
> > > And by the way, I'm pretty sure that the
> Vegas
> > > Talgo became the "Mt. Olympus" Cascades set,
> > not
> > > Mt. Adams.
> > >
> > > Tor in Eugene
> >
> > Someone at TAMC (Transportation Agency of
> Monterey
> > County) majorly pulled the wool over the UP's
> > eyes, got them to spread some clean ballast over
> a
> > portion of the tracks at Fort Ord and set up s
> > staging area for demo rides. The got the Talgo
> > trainset out on the branch track and quickly
> > reaalized that there were some huge stability
> > issues so they inched the train down the track
> to
> > the staging area and had to forego the demo
> rides
> > due to the track condition and then inched the
> > train back up the branch to the mainline.
> Within
> > days, UP removed the switch and not a wheel has
> > touched the rails since. The branch track ends
> at
> > the Costco parking lot in Sand City.
>
> Carol is there ANY future chance of Monterey
> getting passenger service or are the locals
> satisfied with driving and bussing arrangement

For starters, though the rail ends in the Costco parking lot----the rest of the ROW to Pacific Grove is a very popular and highly used rec trail and will never be allowed to revert to ROW----all of the trackage would have to be totally replaced and the bridge over the Salinas river retrofitted because of damage in the '89 quake. Last estimate was some years back and was $38 mil not including the bridge. So what are you going to run on it? Monterey is a tourist destination, not a "commuter city" so once off the train at Costco, then the px have to be transported by??? bus?? Taxi?? shuttles?? to the various Monterey and Carmel tourist places. The only people who "commute" to Monterey are the people who live in Salinas and work in the hotels, do the gardening, etc. etc . There is a definite need for px service from Salinas to San Jose. But the Monterey Branch is what I call the "Brooklyn Bridge" branch------UP unloaded it on TAMC and went skipping to the bank.

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

Thank you for sharing that video. Seeing a glimpse of Jim made it worth taking the time to download. The train was interesting to see too.

Fun fact - Gil Mallery was quite fond of the color purple and was very influential in choosing the interior color scheme for the Vegas Talgo. His color preference also carried over into the offices at 530 Water St. in Oakland and can still be seen in some of the cubicle fixtures in the half of the 5th floor that Amtrak still rents there.

mundo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whistle Pig...are you aware that Jim Bates is no
> longer with us. Ed


I believe I heard that, but can't remember the source. So sorry to hear that. He was truly one of the GOOD guys.

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Carol is there ANY future chance of Monterey
> getting passenger service or are the locals
> satisfied with driving and bussing arrangement

Restored rail service to Monterey?

Let's just say, "It depends on who you ask."

Yes, it would require taxpayer funding and would probably not operate at a profit or cover all of its costs. Those features alone spell "end of story" for most people here.

If we can land a man on the moon, we can most certainly find a way to restore rail service to Monterey. It is "doable."

Do we have the political will? Most certainly not. Certain unnamed people here on TO are among the first to throw cold water on the idea and are, for a variety of reasons, completely opposed to the concept.

http://www.altamontpress.com/discussion/read.php?1,89840,89840#msg-89840



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/14 12:31 by CA_Sou_MA_Agent.