Passenger Trains > Bidder vows to improve Hoosier State line

Bidder vows to improve Hoosier State line
Lafayette Journal & Courier
by Dartunorro Clark
July 18, 2014

> CRAWFORDSVILLE – If Corridor Capital LLC's plans bear fruit, what is
> now a 5-hour, 10-minute train trip from Indianapolis to Chicago will
> take about two hours less.
>
> That's what Fritz Plous, the company's director of communications,
> said Thursday night during a town hall discussion about the Hoosier
> State passenger rail line.
>
> "We won the beauty contest," Plous told about a crowd in
> Crawfordsville. "We don't know what mojo made INDOT choose us."
>
> The Indiana Department of Transportation this month chose Corridor
> Capital LLC, one of four bidders, to improve the rail service.
>
> The future of the line is not certain, but the line certainly needs
> more passengers. It currently has about 85 riders a day, four days a
> week.
>
> "We need to see it at double that," Plous said. More amenities, such
> as Wi-Fi and information screens...That's the first step towards legitimacy:
> Get people a nice, new train,"...But, "The funding has to be there."
>
> Tim Maloney of the Hoosier Environmental Council noted the news that
> Indiana has $2 billion in reserves. "We have the money," he said. "But
> it depends on what our priorities are."
>
> Crawfordsville Mayor Todd Barton urged community members to pressure
> elected officials.
>
> "At the end of the day, you have to have some quality of life that
> attracts residents to your community," Barton said. "We all recognize
> that. Once a line is gone, it's going to be difficult to get it
> back."

Full Article:

Bidder vows to improve Hoosier State line

2 hours?

That's great, get everyone's hopes up of a two hour trip, only to let them down later so that even if there are improvements to the service and you shave an hour off the time, it looks like a failure.

He won't own the tracks so how exactly how does he expect to unclog the mess heading out of Chicago?

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2 hours?
>
> That's great, get everyone's hopes up of a two
> hour trip, only to let them down later so that
> even if there are improvements to the service and
> you shave an hour off the time, it looks like a
> failure.

He said 2 hours less so we are taking just over 3 hours for the trip.

Sharon Evans
Glen Allen, VA

Ok, slight correction. Even so, a 3 hour trip seems very aggressive considering the challenges of running over this line. If you could get the trip to around 4 hours, run 7 days a week, add amenities, this line's ridership would soar. That time frame would start to attract business travelers in a larger volume. The only people that fly from Indy to Chicago are business people and a few very well off individuals. Everyone else drives. To take the train to Union Station is a BIG DEAL for the business AND leisure traveler. No one wants to drive their car into downtown Chicago. It is such a hassle. An unpredictable 5+ hour trip with and after midnight return is hard to market to many folks, but there is a lot of potential. When I lived in Indy, the regular ridership WAS twice the amount of what it is now. Not hard to do.

> It currently has about 85
> riders a day, four days a
> week.


Not even 2 busloads each way. Not an essential service.

darkcloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > It currently has about 85
> > riders a day, four days a
> > week.
>
>
> Not even 2 busloads each way. Not an essential
> service.


Not the way Amtrak has operated it. That's the point of all this. Amtrak doesn't care, so the service was put up for an alternative bidder.

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> darkcloud Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > It currently has about 85
> > > riders a day, four days a
> > > week.
> >
> >
> > Not even 2 busloads each way. Not an essential
> > service.
>
>
> Not the way Amtrak has operated it. That's the
> point of all this. Amtrak doesn't care, so the
> service was put up for an alternative bidder.

And at the end of the day it looks like the actual operation of it will still be Amtrak!

Personally, I think Amtrak is wise in pawning off this train to someone else. It's just too slow to be marketable. And, unless this "private operator" has Billions to rebuild the old Monon Route; it will ALWAYS be slow. I wonder if they even bothered discussing this with the CSX.

Also, the Director of Communications for this "private operator" made some disturbing remarks when he said: "We won the beauty contest"; "We don't know what mojo made INDOT choose us".

Wow! they bid on the service and can't figure out why they were chosen? I hope Indiana knows what they're getting into.

Joe

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, slight correction. Even so, a 3 hour trip
> seems very aggressive considering the challenges
> of running over this line. If you could get the
> trip to around 4 hours, run 7 days a week, add
> amenities, this line's ridership would soar.
> That time frame would start to attract business
> travelers in a larger volume. The only people
> that fly from Indy to Chicago are business people
> and a few very well off individuals. Everyone
> else drives. To take the train to Union Station
> is a BIG DEAL for the business AND leisure
> traveler. No one wants to drive their car into
> downtown Chicago. It is such a hassle. An
> unpredictable 5+ hour trip with and after midnight
> return is hard to market to many folks, but there
> is a lot of potential. When I lived in Indy, the
> regular ridership WAS twice the amount of what it
> is now. Not hard to do.

Megabus does it in about 3h 15m. I took it on July 4th due to the late arrival of 49/449 to Chicago the previous day and missing my connection to 50/850.

Again, not owning the tracks, any operator is at the mercy of the freight railroads.

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally, I think Amtrak is wise in pawning off
> this train to someone else. It's just too slow to
> be marketable. And, unless this "private
> operator" has Billions to rebuild the old Monon
> Route; it will ALWAYS be slow. I wonder if they
> even bothered discussing this with the CSX.

============================================================

Sour grapes on Amtrak's loss...and you obviously do not know Corridor
Capital's operating plan, nor the longterm hopes for service expansion,
something the creaking, smallthinking, overweight dinosaur management at
Amtrak lack the ability and foresight to consider. There are people at
the state level who will have to be won over, but already some who are
looking ahead.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/14 15:02 by GenePoon.

To: Gene Poon

This is no Amtrak "loss". It's a gain. Amtrak doesn't want to run it; too slow; and nobody is going to rebuild the old Monon.


Why aren't you happy about Amtrak being "out of the picture" with this train? This is the perfect chance to see what this "private" operator can do. As you often told us; the entire Amtrak system should be dismantled and turned over to private operators like this.

With any luck; Amtrak can now move a locomotive or two over to the Texas Eagle--hopefully. Maybe even transfer a few Amfleets over to the NEC. And, sense the Hoosier State will still be running; sounds like a win-win to me.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/14 18:18 by floridajoe2001.

I think it is a foot in the door assuming the bidder is serious. It is really a great place for that.
Some improvement is likely so chance of at least moderate success is great.

Bob

They should do improved service too, not just cuttin' the time (which is impossible now considering where the Hoosier and the Cardinal has to cross to/from Chicago and the Indiana State line!)

Fritz Plous knows passenger rail. If his company is a serious effort, I can only wish them well.

This is just the tip of the iceberg as they say. The states are being gouged by Amtrak's bloated overhead and dinosaur management. If this succeeds more will follow. Amtrak can either shape up or find itself out of the state supported train business. Now if we could just find an operator for the long distance trains. Amtrak will be left with the NEC, which 'makes money' har har, so it can prosper.

jfrank39 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is just the tip of the iceberg as they say.
> The states are being gouged by Amtrak's bloated
> overhead and dinosaur management. If this
> succeeds more will follow. Amtrak can either
> shape up or find itself out of the state supported
> train business. Now if we could just find an
> operator for the long distance trains. Amtrak
> will be left with the NEC, which 'makes money' har
> har, so it can prosper.

I have to agree with ya since it seems Ammanamgent for some reason, and I know it's been going on for years, not caring about the rest of the system, and that's sad!

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With any luck; Amtrak can now move a locomotive or
> two over to the Texas Eagle--hopefully. Maybe even
> transfer a few Amfleets over to the NEC. And,
> sense the Hoosier State will still be running;
> sounds like a win-win to me.
>
> Joe

What on earth makes you think that Amtrak will re-deploy one or two corridor coaches and an engine? They are unable to figure out how to utilize the single-level equipment they now operate outside of the NEC, and both engines and cars are failing so fast that any 'spares' that might result from this change will end up on corridor trains in and out of Chicago to cover for other bad-ordered cars, and a second engine uses fuel and increases costs far beyond what the accountants in Washington will tolerate.

Most of us know that Amtrak is hopelessly mired in its own bureaucracy and is slowly slipping into total meltdown across the entire country. Only a few of us are willing to accept that fact and hope that private industry, if given a chance, will be able to turn it around one route at a time.

Lets give it a couple of years and see what happens. I mean heck, the CAF Viewliner II order is already two years behind for whatever reasons - perhaps Iowa Pacific and Corridor Group will actually give us a reprieve and make a positive effort to improve sustainable intercity rail service.

timecruncher

So true. Anyone who works for Amtrak or deals with them knows how true this is. Sad, because these new operators will not pay their T&E nearly as much. I believe Sunrail in FL pays $15-$20 an hour. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on the pay issue.

timecruncher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> What on earth makes you think that Amtrak will
> re-deploy one or two corridor coaches and an
> engine? They are unable to figure out how to
> utilize the single-level equipment they now
> operate outside of the NEC, and both engines and
> cars are failing so fast that any 'spares' that
> might result from this change will end up on
> corridor trains in and out of Chicago to cover for
> other bad-ordered cars, and a second engine uses
> fuel and increases costs far beyond what the
> accountants in Washington will tolerate.
>
> Most of us know that Amtrak is hopelessly mired in
> its own bureaucracy and is slowly slipping into
> total meltdown across the entire country. Only a
> few of us are willing to accept that fact and hope
> that private industry, if given a chance, will be
> able to turn it around one route at a time.
>
> Lets give it a couple of years and see what
> happens. I mean heck, the CAF Viewliner II order
> is already two years behind for whatever reasons -
> perhaps Iowa Pacific and Corridor Group will
> actually give us a reprieve and make a positive
> effort to improve sustainable intercity rail
> service.
>
> timecruncher

Two hours? Heck, it takes that long to get through the south side of Chicago. Well, not quite but 15 or 20 MPH and an occasional stop for a minute or five and riding the rails of CSX, NS, UP, Belt, Metro, Lionel Lines, American Flyer and, well scratch those last two but you get the idea. There are some constants of physics that you just can change. The speed of sound is 767 MPH in air and it won't go any faster. (OK, I know it can vary as pressure changes but not that much.) I wish them luck. And yes, I read the part about it being 3 hours, reducing the current time by 2 hours.

John