Passenger Trains > Superliner Staircases

The other day on the Builder I was sitting in a Superliner Coach upstairs near the stairs. I saw many old folks have difficulty -- sometimes extreme difficulty -- climbing the stairs returning from the lower-level restrooms. In other words they had nothing in their hands. The hardest stair was the top one. On all other stairs they had some banister ahead of them to help pull themselves up with their hands and arms. The top stair has no banister ahead of it.

That made me think of the staircase in Alaska Diesel Multiple Unit 751. First it is straight. Second the right hand banister goes beyond the top stair. And it has two banisters. Some Superliner cars have two, others have one, and the staircase is cramped with two 90-degree turns.

I can't remember the stairs on the California cars, but I hope the new multi-state order makes it much easier for the elderly to get up them.

The three pictures are shots of the car, of looking down the staircase, and of looking up it. All three were taken June 6, 2009.

I intend to post a series of pictures of the car soon and I may use these pictures again.

Marty Bernard



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/14 15:54 by MartyBernard.

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YES, the California Car staircases are straight with two handrails like the one on the
Alaska car you posted (though the outer one does not extend onto the landing as the
Alaska one does), and much easier to use than the Superliner spiral type, which I suspect
would no longer be used were Boardman ever to awaken from his funk and order Superliner IIIs.

See photos at:

Amtrak California Surfliner Coach Car Photos - Stairs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/14 16:56 by GenePoon.

Thank you Gene.

Marty

Not saying this makes it right, but does the Amtrak configuration eliminate fewer seats?

symph1 Wrote:
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> Not saying this makes it right, but does the
> Amtrak configuration eliminate fewer seats?


Yes. My guess is 6.

Perhaps one toilet on the upper level as is the case in the sleepers would solve the problem. Also if they know they are going to have a problem with the stairs, aren't there seats downstairs in the coaches (excepting the coach baggage cars)?

Yes there are lower level seats in coach, and they can be catered by the attendant if needed. There are two problems with this seeming solution: 1. The lower level seats sell out quickly. 2. Many folks really enjoy going to the dinning car for meals, rather than having them brought to the tray table at a coach seat. The chance to socialize is often important, esp. to the older passenger.

David

It also is not clear whether only one staircase would now be considered
adequate for emergency evacuation, nor whether the Superliner spiral
would be considered wide enough.

Interesting subject. I think Santa Fe and early Amtrak management had the right idea with Hi Levels and Superliners, respectively.

While working the Capitol Corridor with Horizon Cars, the Conductor (ex Santa Fe) I was working with at the time, warned of persons falling down the flight of stairs during sudden stops or over rough track etc. after learning of the California Car straight staircase design.

Later, I saw first hand what he envisioned. I have see persons fall from the top of the stairs to the bottom lading on their face. This would be difficult to do on a Superliner or Santa Fe Hi Level staircase. I suspect that is why Budd made a slightly curved stair to domes, or as Pullman Standard did with the B&O, Santa Fe Pleasure Domes and MP Planetarium Domes.

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Perhaps one toilet on the upper level as is the
> case in the sleepers would solve the problem.

Yeah, solve one problem and create several more.
Placing a toilet upstairs means you have to run water and toilet drain lines upstairs.
Longer lines means more leaks.

Back in the late 90s when I rode the San Joaquins from Bakersfield to Sacramento each month to attend a meeting, seats in the lower level were reserved for the elderly or handicapped.

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

I believe Santa Fe had bathrooms on the upper level in the high-level lounge with the idea of seating those who had trouble with stairs nearby in the adjacent coach.

Not only do the California & Surfliner cars have this feature, but so do the Metrolink cars both the Bombardier & the newer Rotem cars. I wish Amtrak would get the Alaska type cars that are pictured here, those large windows would be ideal on the Pacific Surfliner route!

Not sure if the Santa Fe Hi-Levels had this issue, all I know is that the Superliners was a modernized design. But perhaps stair setups would not as big of a concern years ago as they are today, could someone enlighten us on this topic?

I believe it was after the derailment of the Southwest Chief in Offerle, KS or Delhi, CO in the 1970's, that the FRA or NTSB dictated to Amtrak that the stairwells in the Hi-level cars were too narrow. Turns out that emergency responders could not get stretchers up and down the stairs. This led to the Superliner's having a wider stairway design. I would like to see them put a bathroom upstairs in the coaches, that would help, although it would undoubtedly be overused. They need to come up with a Superliner III design that has more lower level seating. It absolutely is what a significant percentage of Amtrak riders want. Of course you are limited by the space for the cars trucks and utilities, but it's a design flaw in what is needed in today's society. Realistically, there are a lot of elderly people , and also a significant amount of obese that can't get up stairs easily. It's great being upstairs for the view and the quieter ride, but I'm not sure those points are as important to all rail passengers these days.

I agree they Superliner stairs are a problem. I'm not that old yet and trying to get upstair with just my hand luggage is a hassle. Personally, I don't see the value of the high-level coaches. Traveling in coach is better on a single level, IMHO.

I don't like doing stairs in the night to do #1 either, but a 3 section SL stairs are safer as you cannot fall as far.

Likewise, why such a great love of upper level cars? The lower level of Superliner coaches is generally a dark, stinking hole and I would not ride in the passenger cage even for free. Sleeping car lower levels are a little better, especially if one wants quiet. The stairways are clearly inadequate. California Cars are better in nearly every way, but still a well designed, spacious and well ventilated single level car without steps would be great.

I disagree. My wife and I prefer the darker, quieter, more comfortable Superliners to the CA cars. Luckily 774/777 usually has one next to the cab car on the South end.

Single level cars have less capacity than bilevel cars, and require more walking because trains tend to be longer (remembering 18-car Coast Starlights).

That's a major reason why the bilevel design has been chosen.

The design flaws as I see it that need to be addressed:
1) Hard to maneuver stairs(relates to #3)
2) Lack of restrooms on the upper level(also relates to #3)
3) Not enough lower level seating
4) Not enough Luggage space in lower level racks
5) Aisle is too narrow for oversize wheelchairs
6) Superliners take forever to load and unload