Passenger Trains > Former RF&P Budd coach goes to BNSF Topeka shops

I imagine they will tunnel it and create another business car masterpiece. It was stenciled BNSF 090.

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When the roof-type corrugation extends down over the letterboard, that is a sign of a very early post-war build, correct ?

Yeah, now that you mention it, I didn't notice that at first. This shot is off Railroad pictures.net.

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This was part of a fleet of 52 Seat Budd Coaches. The Seaboard, Pennsy, and RF&P all had some for the Florida - New York service. The RF&P ones were unique as they had really long letter boards with the RF&P spelled out. Also, in the 60s as in the pic the RF&P took the skirting off and the lower side sill is very noticeable. Glad to see it getting a second life, or at least I hope so.

Where'd they get this one?

Mid-America Rail leasing I believe. It also had Central New York NRHS marks on it. New York Susquehanna & Western RR also IIRC on the COTS.

The BNSF has a beautiful business car fleet, to be certain. Look up "Topeka Business Car Shop Tour Part II" on YouTube for an exquisite tour of much of the fleet (both inside and out).

I really like the way the former BN smoothside cars received corrugated panels on the sides to make all of the cars appear consistent with one another (except for the bilevel ex-commute coaches which are quite ugly, but very luxurious on the inside at least).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/14 03:53 by Red.

Red Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The BNSF has a beautiful business car fleet, to be
> certain. Look up "Topeka Business Car Shop Tour
> Part II" on YouTube for an exquisite tour of much
> of the fleet (both inside and out).
>
> I really like the way the former BN smoothside
> cars received corrugated panels on the sides to
> make all of the cars appear consistent with one
> another (except for the bilevel ex-commute coaches
> which are quite ugly, but very luxurious on the
> inside at least).

I have to disagree. I think what BNSF has done to the former BN and AT&SF business fleet is an abomination. I also think stuffing and mounting otherwise restorable feature cars and then parking them on "Lou Menk Drive" is blasphemous.

Bob

since you guys say it will be #90 it looks like it will be a track geometry train support car

bnsfbob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Red Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The BNSF has a beautiful business car fleet, to
> be
> > certain. Look up "Topeka Business Car Shop Tour
> > Part II" on YouTube for an exquisite tour of
> much
> > of the fleet (both inside and out).
> >
> > I really like the way the former BN smoothside
> > cars received corrugated panels on the sides to
> > make all of the cars appear consistent with one
> > another (except for the bilevel ex-commute
> coaches
> > which are quite ugly, but very luxurious on the
> > inside at least).
>
> I have to disagree. I think what BNSF has done to
> the former BN and AT&SF business fleet is an
> abomination. I also think stuffing and mounting
> otherwise restorable feature cars and then parking
> them on "Lou Menk Drive" is blasphemous.
>
> Bob

Bob, why did they 4-axle the Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe? (I'm pretty sure they originally came with the high-speed 6-axle trucks such as found under a lot of other biz cars, the ATSF HiLevel Diners, and the ATSF and other full domes?)... Once had the ATSF Atchison right behind my sleeper on No. 3 in the 1980s from Chicago westward where it was cut off in La Junta, CO the next morning...

RailThunder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This was part of a fleet of 52 Seat Budd Coaches.
> The Seaboard, Pennsy, and RF&P all had some for
> the Florida - New York service. The RF&P ones
> were unique as they had really long letter boards
> with the RF&P spelled out. Also, in the 60s as in
> the pic the RF&P took the skirting off and the
> lower side sill is very noticeable. Glad to see
> it getting a second life, or at least I hope so.


H,
I hate to correct you.
The car going to BNSF and the car in the picture
are from the same group.RF&P 801-06 blt 1946.

The cars that you are referring to are RF&P 850-57
blt 1947.

They look alike but there are minor differences.
The early cars roof corrugations go all the way
down to the top of the window.(CB&Q cars were
this way,as an example).
The latter cars roofs are separated from the windows
by a batten strip at the roof line.If you look
closely you will notice a slight different in the
windows on the aisle side as well.

Uncle Joe,Seffner,Fl.

This RF&P coach is of Budd Truss type construction. Cars built after 1950 are mostly of Girder type construction, and feature the full length letterboard that you describe. Late built CB&Q cars have this smooth letterboard with roof type corrugation shot welded over the top to match the appearance of the older truss cars. The other give away is the window band and type of windows - pound in gasket on the truss and Adlake style frames on the girder cars.

Posted from Android

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> since you guys say it will be #90 it looks like it
> will be a track geometry train support car


That is correct. Mp51w, nice shot and thanks for the history on it. Here's my view of it the other day. Did you happen to catch the former MRLX number on it? I can't make it out in my shot.

Thanks,
- Jeff Carlson

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This was an effort to standardize on 4-axle OSH trucks for the fleet in late Santa Fe days by a new biz car manager ala the dear leader in Cheyenne. Made absolutely no sense then, and still doesn't. Attempts were also made to do the same with big dome, but axle loadings were found impossible to make practical without replacing springs every trip or cracking the truck frames. This was told to me by the late Richard Scholz, who never spread a rumor, only telling the true story.

> > Red Wrote:
> >
> why did they 4-axle the Atchison, Topeka, and
> Santa Fe?

retcsxcfm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RailThunder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This was part of a fleet of 52 Seat Budd
> Coaches.
> > The Seaboard, Pennsy, and RF&P all had some for
> > the Florida - New York service. The RF&P ones
> > were unique as they had really long letter
> boards
> > with the RF&P spelled out. Also, in the 60s as
> in
> > the pic the RF&P took the skirting off and the
> > lower side sill is very noticeable. Glad to
> see
> > it getting a second life, or at least I hope
> so.
>
>
> H,
> I hate to correct you.
> The car going to BNSF and the car in the picture
> are from the same group.RF&P 801-06 blt 1946.
>
> The cars that you are referring to are RF&P
> 850-57
> blt 1947.
>
> They look alike but there are minor differences.
> The early cars roof corrugations go all the way
> down to the top of the window.(CB&Q cars were
> this way,as an example).
> The latter cars roofs are separated from the
> windows
> by a batten strip at the roof line.If you look
> closely you will notice a slight different in the
> windows on the aisle side as well.
>
> Uncle Joe,Seffner,Fl.

Further to Uncle Joe's comments, the new BNSF car is from the group of RF&P coaches that were built to ACL specs for operation in ACL trains, while the RF&P coaches noted by RailThunder were built to SAL specs for operation in SAL trains. There were a lot of interesting details, inside and out, that were very different between the two orders.

PumpkinHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This was an effort to standardize on 4-axle OSH
> trucks for the fleet in late Santa Fe days by a
> new biz car manager ala the dear leader in
> Cheyenne. Made absolutely no sense then, and still
> doesn't. Attempts were also made to do the same
> with big dome, but axle loadings were found
> impossible to make practical without replacing
> springs every trip or cracking the truck frames.
> This was told to me by the late Richard Scholz,
> who never spread a rumor, only telling the true
> story.
>
> > > Red Wrote:
> > >
> > why did they 4-axle the Atchison, Topeka, and
> > Santa Fe?

This is pretty much true. The Santa Fe and Topeka did not require six-wheel trucks for design reasons. They were built that way in the belief that the cars would ride better. They may have rode better but not appreciably better than a 4-axle car. These two cars were the handsomest modern business cars on the rails when they had the six-wheel trucks. Unfortunately, a stupid decision was made to convert the trucks. BTW, the other most beautiful business car was SP's Sunset. What a tragedy to see that wonderful stainless steel covered with piss yellow paint.

I never heard the story about also converting the big domes to four wheel trucks. This would have been impossible from an engineering standpoint and a summer intern mechanical engineer would have only needed five minutes looking at the prints to arrive at this conclusion.

Bob

hope this car doesn't spell the end for an old x sf heavyweight

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> since you guys say it will be #90 it looks like it
> will be a track geometry train support car


Seems like I heard that they had a contract to do a total of 4 track geometry cars for STI Global, similar to the Michael D. Harding. MLRX 5423 are the reporting marks on this coach. The car is indeed a survivor!