Passenger Trains > NS delays--are these stats revealing?

I ran the arrival figures on #49 LSL at Chicago for October (from Dixieland). Are they telling us anything yet?

Oct. 1-5.... 7 hours late (average)
Oct. 6-10... Cancelled/terminated at Cleveland
Oct. 11-14.. 6 hours late (average)
OCT. 14.. STB BEGINS INVESTIGATION OF NS
Oct. 15-20.. 2'26" late (Average--detailed below)
________________________________________________
Oct. 15..... 56" late
Oct. 16..... 4'11" Late (3' caused by CSX east of Cleveland)
Oct. 17..... 34" late
Oct. 18..... 1'08" late
Oct. 19..... 3'17" late (1 hour caused by CSX)
Oct. 20..... 51" late

True, we don't have enough data yet; but so far, the NS went from a 7-10 hour delay; down to a 2 hour delay starting Magically on Oct. 14.

Joe
_______________________________________________

On what date did Englewood go fully on line ?
I'd expect UPS to yell next, i.e. "how come Amtrak gets through with minimal delay and we don't?"

To: joemvcnj

If you're suggesting the Englewood Flyover has cured everything; then why has NS moved in all those new crews and gone on a hiring blitz?

Joe

I only asked when it went on line, ddn't say a word about it curing everything.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> I only asked when it went on line, ddn't say a
> word about it curing everything.


Somebody posted a comment a few weeks ago that the flyover, several new crossovers, and a third track addition were all part of the Indiana gateway project. And that the work was coming to an end on parts of the effort, so things should get a little looser.

I'll see if I can find the original post and link to it.

Don't misunderstand. Good lord, yes! if NS restores a 3rd track (or even the 4th) that was once there; this is the "Silver Bullet" that will cure the problem.

But you see, The NS did nothing about track capacity until the system melted down. Shall we give them an award for good management?

Joe

I can't stand the NS.

Don't forget that there's a WORLD of difference between UPS and Amtrak. UPS can and will not only enforce very expensive penalty clauses in its contract with NS for late arrivals, it will and can take its business elsewhere if things get real bad. Options Amtrak doesn't have.

Ross Rowland

co614 Wrote:
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> Don't forget that there's a WORLD of difference
> between UPS and Amtrak. UPS can and will not only
> enforce very expensive penalty clauses in its
> contract with NS for late arrivals, it will and
> can take its business elsewhere if things get real
> bad. Options Amtrak doesn't have.
>
> Ross Rowland
You hit the nail right on the head Ross.

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't misunderstand. Good lord, yes! if NS
> restores a 3rd track (or even the 4th) that was
> once there; this is the "Silver Bullet" that will
> cure the problem.
>
> But you see, The NS did nothing about track
> capacity until the system melted down. Shall we
> give them an award for good management?
>
> Joe

Incorrect as usual. The additional track and crossovers west of Porter, along with the third main between Elkhart and Goshen have been under construction all year.

Posted from iPhone

To: co614

Thanks, Ross, as they say in England--"Spot On".

Yes, UPS contracts have penalty provisions for late handling; but you see, the naysayers say Amtrak has no right to receive such compensation. In fact, they feel Amtrak shouldn't be on freight railroad property to begin with.

I hope it's becoming increasingly obvious to most of us, just how nuts such a position is.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/14 09:28 by floridajoe2001.

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> floridajoe2001 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Don't misunderstand. Good lord, yes! if NS
> > restores a 3rd track (or even the 4th) that was
> > once there; this is the "Silver Bullet" that
> will
> > cure the problem.
> >
> > But you see, The NS did nothing about track
> > capacity until the system melted down. Shall
> we
> > give them an award for good management?
> >
> > Joe
>
> Incorrect as usual. The additional track and
> crossovers west of Porter, along with the third
> main between Elkhart and Goshen have been under
> construction all year.
>
> Posted from iPhone


One local observer expressed the view that the tracks and crossover construction CAUSED some of the NS delays between Elkhart and Chicago. Compounded by a huge increase in traffic over the line.

"Temporary inconvenience, permanent improvement" as the signs along highway projects used to say

Before this thread derails completely--getting back to the original post--so far, it looks like something magical happened to NS handling of Amtrak after October 14th (STB Day, you might say).

But, but, but, it's too soon to tell. Another week's data should make things a little clearer.

Joe

It does seem to demonstrate that Amtrak needs to be more aggressive about protecting its rights.

The theory that "Amtrak needs to step lightly" because "it needs to work with these people" is called into question.

Operating railroads may have concluded that Amtrak doesn't really care whether it runs on time, and if Amtrak doesn't care, then certainly NS doesn't either.

My problem is that Amtrak seems to collect detailed delay statistics on its trains for years, but never seems able to do anything with the information....either due to a lack of money for capital improvements, a general sense that "nothing can be done", or just not caring because passengers on LDTs are infrequent customers and typically complain less than business travelers or daily commuters.

If you think that a ceo, or the stb can wave a magic wand, and reduce delays on a congested railroad without a domino effect on other trains, you really don't understand railroading. More telling than the reduced delays that Amtrak is receiving are the reports that NS intermodal traffic is running closer to schedule. That shows that something has happened to increase capacity.

Posted from iPhone

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, UPS contracts have penalty provisions for
> late handling; but you see, the naysayers say
> Amtrak has no right to receive such compensation.
> In fact, they feel Amtrak shouldn't be on freight
> railroad property to begin with.
>
> I hope it's becoming increasingly obvious to most
> of us, just how nuts such a position is.
>
> Joe

Joe, UPS gets such provisions because it pays enough to get such provisions as part of its contract with NS.

Amtrak, on the other hand, does not even pay NS enough to cover the costs of running Amtrak trains on NS.

Besides everything else, I believe NS had some MOW programs in the area that ended recently. A variety of factors contributed to the meltdown. Now things are getting better, and I am sure that Mr. Moorman has reminded the troops as how to handle Amtrak trains.

For you NS haters, it is time to let this one rest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/14 10:19 by ts1457.

I'm not familiar with this area, is the Lake Shore Limited the only Amtrak train that operates on this particular section of railroad? Do the timekeeping statistics of any other trains reflect a similar trend? What about the performance of the eastbound LSL over same time period?

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you think that a ceo, or the stb can wave a
> magic wand, and reduce delays on a congested
> railroad without a domino effect on other trains,
> you really don't understand railroading.


The same goes for thinking that infrastructure projects can be quickly developed and built when congestion occurs.

>More
> telling than the reduced delays that Amtrak is
> receiving are the reports that NS intermodal
> traffic is running closer to schedule. That shows
> that something has happened to increase capacity.

...or improve traffic management.

TAW

smudgepot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not familiar with this area, is the Lake Shore
> Limited the only Amtrak train that operates on
> this particular section of railroad? Do the
> timekeeping statistics of any other trains reflect
> a similar trend? What about the performance of the
> eastbound LSL over same time period?


The Capitol Limited also operates over NS's ex-NYC main line between Chicago and Cleveland.

Both trains' performance has improved markedly after the trains that originated on Oct. 13, although only one has made it to its endpoint within the 30 minutes that Amtrak considers "on time" for a long-distance train.

Of last night's trains, the best performer appears to have been #29, which reached Chicago 67 minutes late. Nos. 30 and 48 are both running about two hours down and #49 reached Chicago 2:41 late, having lost 1:32 between Toledo and Chicago.

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Typhoon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you think that a ceo, or the stb can wave a
> > magic wand, and reduce delays on a congested
> > railroad without a domino effect on other
> trains,
> > you really don't understand railroading.
>
>
> The same goes for thinking that infrastructure
> projects can be quickly developed and built when
> congestion occurs.
>
Correct. However there have been several capacity improvements that have been worked on all summer. Those, along with the completion of some MOW work in the area, like the redecking of the 509 bridge and a tie replacement project that resulted in single tracking around it. Sometimes it is not about adding capacity as much as it is getting some of your capacity back.

Posted from iPhone