Passenger Trains > When you run out of seat checks...

...use whatever's handy.

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And what's wrong with that? It's called getting the job done.

PHall Wrote:
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> And what's wrong with that? It's called getting
> the job done.

I have no anti-GenePoon bias, so the first thing that came to my mind was the resourcefulness of Amtrak employees. I was going to exercise my free speech rights (stay quiet) until I saw your post. :-)

cchan006 Wrote:
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> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And what's wrong with that? It's called
> getting
> > the job done.
>
> I have no anti-GenePoon bias, so the first thing
> that came to my mind was the resourcefulness of
> Amtrak employees. I was going to exercise my free
> speech rights (stay quiet) until I saw your post.
> :-)


Most railroads don't use seat checks. It's a bit of an antiquated practice.

reindeerflame Wrote:
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> cchan006 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > PHall Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > And what's wrong with that? It's called
> > getting
> > > the job done.
> >
> > I have no anti-GenePoon bias, so the first
> thing
> > that came to my mind was the resourcefulness of
> > Amtrak employees. I was going to exercise my
> free
> > speech rights (stay quiet) until I saw your
> post.
> > :-)
>
>
> Most railroads don't use seat checks. It's a bit
> of an antiquated practice.

Some Capitol Corridor and Surfliner conductors print out a seat check from their digital devices. Antiquated or not, it's still a form of a seat check. I mention this, since you have a habit of dissing Amtrak, yet praising Amtrak California (Capitol Corridor).

Japan Railways conductors use a paper list, so even though it's not noticeable by passengers, it's still a form of a seat check. That's only used for reserved seating. For unreserved seating, they obviously don't check because the passengers have already gone through fare gates, so their payments have already been verified before boarding the train.

Your comment is moot, unless you are willing to foot the bill for a fare gate system of some sort for Amtrak trains.

VIA Rail's are a postem-note type thing, not the index card Amtrak has.

cchan006 Wrote:
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> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > cchan006 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > PHall Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > And what's wrong with that? It's called
> > > getting
> > > > the job done.
> > >
> > > I have no anti-GenePoon bias, so the first
> > thing
> > > that came to my mind was the resourcefulness
> of
> > > Amtrak employees. I was going to exercise my
> > free
> > > speech rights (stay quiet) until I saw your
> > post.
> > > :-)
> >
> >
> > Most railroads don't use seat checks. It's a
> bit
> > of an antiquated practice.
>
> Some Capitol Corridor and Surfliner conductors
> print out a seat check from their digital devices.
> Antiquated or not, it's still a form of a seat
> check. I mention this, since you have a habit of
> dissing Amtrak, yet praising Amtrak California
> (Capitol Corridor).
>
> Japan Railways conductors use a paper list, so
> even though it's not noticeable by passengers,
> it's still a form of a seat check. That's only
> used for reserved seating. For unreserved seating,
> they obviously don't check because the passengers
> have already gone through fare gates, so their
> payments have already been verified before
> boarding the train.
>
> Your comment is moot, unless you are willing to
> foot the bill for a fare gate system of some sort
> for Amtrak trains.


I love Amtrak, it's just a bit old-fashioned and dated. No European train uses seat checks, and there typically aren't fare gates, either. The American way of doing things isn't the only way.

Anyone care to list the purpose(s) of being issued a seat check ?

Englewood Wrote:
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> Anyone care to list the purpose(s) of being issued
> a seat check ?


I can think of a couple of things....notice that this seat is occupied, when the occupant is not present. It notes the destination, so the crew can notify the occupant of their destination coming up in cases of overnight travel. Seat checks were less necessary back when reserved seats meant that a specific seat (car 41, seat A22) was designated....a far more efficient system to my way of thinking. AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

Go through the cars looking for your next stop passengers at night with a lantern or flashlight

> Japan Railways conductors use a paper list, so
> even though it's not noticeable by passengers,
> it's still a form of a seat check.

First class coaches in some Japanese trains have small red and green lights over the seats. The light stays green until the person occupying that seat reaches his/her stop, then turns red.

Photo was taken in the first class car of a standard train incidentally, as shown in the 2nd photo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/14 22:14 by symph1.

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agentatascadero Wrote:
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> Englewood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anyone care to list the purpose(s) of being
> issued
> > a seat check ?
>
>
>.....It notes the destination, so the crew
> can notify the occupant of their destination
> coming up in cases of overnight travel......

Exactly, and not just for overnight travel.

The last thing the crew wants to have is a "carry by" who missed
getting off at their stop.

So if the company will not provide proper seat checks you
use whatever is available.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/14 05:00 by Englewood.

Another thought process removed from the human being.lol

kingman Wrote:
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> Another thought process removed from the human
> being.lol

I hope you're only just joking about your remark.....because the reality is the opposite. Seat checks are a necessary redundancy/fail safe item. Crews are far more aware of the territory and prompts for stops than are passengers. Your remark causes me to think you're comparing this practice to the "nanny state" type complaints that suggest the individual has no reason to think for him/herself. That Japanese method seems to bring seat checks into the modern era with that light system. I still prefer specifically assigned reserved seats....which even today could/would eliminate much of the utter chaos seen as Amtrak crews struggle to board their passengers....the SNAFUs I have seen are unbelievable, and totally unnecessary. AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

agentatascadero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kingman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Another thought process removed from the human
> > being.lol
>
> I hope you're only just joking about your
> remark.....because the reality is the opposite.
> Seat checks are a necessary redundancy/fail safe
> item. Crews are far more aware of the territory
> and prompts for stops than are passengers. Your
> remark causes me to think you're comparing this
> practice to the "nanny state" type complaints that
> suggest the individual has no reason to think for
> him/herself. That Japanese method seems to bring
> seat checks into the modern era with that light
> system. I still prefer specifically assigned
> reserved seats....which even today could/would
> eliminate much of the utter chaos seen as Amtrak
> crews struggle to board their passengers....the
> SNAFUs I have seen are unbelievable, and totally
> unnecessary. AA

I took that to refer to the electronic alternative shown in the Japanese car.

TAW

TAW, Even if you are correct about what the poster meant.....the light system performs the same function as those primitive seat checks....to alert other passengers to seat occupancy and the crew to passenger destinations....both functions require thought in order to perform properly. AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

agentatascadero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TAW, Even if you are correct about what the poster
> meant.....the light system performs the same
> function as those primitive seat checks....to
> alert other passengers to seat occupancy and the
> crew to passenger destinations....both functions
> require thought in order to perform properly.

Sure. The same function is served in Germany by lighted signs above seats, showing reserved from-to. Seating is open to anyone except the portion of the trip that is reserved. However, the open-seating passengers are on their own, if I remember correctly. Of course, passengers are also on their own to open the door to board or alight. I wonder if the system in the Japanese car serves the function of the system in an ICE or the function of a seat check.

By the way, for the purpose they serve, I find nothing to be primitive about the seat check system. It works, [generally] doesn't fail [unless the spring clip is broken...but not even if you run out of pre-cut little papers], and doesn't add a gigabuck to the cost of the car and kilobucks in annual maintenance.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> agentatascadero Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TAW, Even if you are correct about what the
> poster
> > meant.....the light system performs the same
> > function as those primitive seat checks....to
> > alert other passengers to seat occupancy and
> the
> > crew to passenger destinations....both
> functions
> > require thought in order to perform properly.
>
> Sure. The same function is served in Germany by
> lighted signs above seats, showing reserved
> from-to. Seating is open to anyone except the
> portion of the trip that is reserved. However, the
> open-seating passengers are on their own, if I
> remember correctly. Of course, passengers are also
> on their own to open the door to board or alight.
> I wonder if the system in the Japanese car serves
> the function of the system in an ICE or the
> function of a seat check.
>
> By the way, for the purpose they serve, I find
> nothing to be primitive about the seat check
> system. It works, doesn't fail , and doesn't add
> a gigabuck to the cost of the car and kilobucks in
> annual maintenance.
>
> TAW

Amen brother, and the same can be said for so many technological so-called "advances" over the years. To an old primitive like myself, the sum total of those "advances" tend to represent a liability rather than actual progress for us. AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

So what's wrong with a little American railroad tradition and nostalgia? Shall we just keep neutering Amtrak
until its "just like an airline"?

Being boarded by the conductor late at night, as he slams the door behind you while he keys the mike and says
"highball number 6 Fort Morgan" as you rattle through those bad BN switches picking up speed going 79 by the time you sit down
is pretty dam cool.

Except, they don't say that anymore do they?

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> agentatascadero Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > kingman Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Another thought process removed from the
> human
> > > being.lol
> >
> > I hope you're only just joking about your
> > remark.....because the reality is the opposite.
>
> > Seat checks are a necessary redundancy/fail
> safe
> > item. Crews are far more aware of the
> territory
> > and prompts for stops than are passengers.
> Your
> > remark causes me to think you're comparing
> this
> > practice to the "nanny state" type complaints
> that
> > suggest the individual has no reason to think
> for
> > him/herself. That Japanese method seems to
> bring
> > seat checks into the modern era with that light
> > system. I still prefer specifically assigned
> > reserved seats....which even today could/would
> > eliminate much of the utter chaos seen as
> Amtrak
> > crews struggle to board their passengers....the
> > SNAFUs I have seen are unbelievable, and
> totally
> > unnecessary. AA
>
> I took that to refer to the electronic alternative
> shown in the Japanese car.
>
> TAW


You are correct, now we have another electronic gizmo to take us out of the loop. Its a big problem with flight crews today and to some extent ATC. Also it is late Im going to bed were I should have been 3 hours ago,



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/14 10:16 by kingman.