Passenger Trains > Calif HSR Gets Buy America Waiver from FRA

Interesting.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/eLib/details/L16035#p1_z5_gD_lWR

Marty Bernard

So both CA HSR AND AMTRAK high speed trainsets coming to America in less then two years?!

"domestically-produced HSR trainsets cannot be bought or produced in the United States within
a "reasonable time" given the program schedule associated with Amtrak's and the Authority's
projects. FRA estimates that it could take HSR trainset manufacturers a minimum of one and a
half to two years to establish the required facilities to support a domestic HSR trainset
assembly capability."

Who knew both systems were so far along that waiting 1½ to 2 years for the 160 mph+ trainsets
would be unreasonable.

Not.

/Mitch



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/14 10:44 by Mgoldman.

Glad to see this waiver also applies to the new Acela sets Amtrak wants for the NEC.

Although I strongly feel "Buy American" is a very good thing; the sad fact must be faced that the U.S. is just too far behind in anything concerning high-speed passenger rail.

The California project is soooo far in the future (30 years); but Amtrak needs new Acela sets today; and this waiver should move things along a little faster (I hope).

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/14 09:37 by floridajoe2001.

Gotta start somewhere, hopefully more high speed equipment will be needed in the future and we can establish our own domestic HSR manufacturing facilities.

Thanks for the link,

Jim Montague
IRVINE, CA
Train and Nature photo Art

The entire project may take that long but the first section of HSR through the central valley has begun in earnest with highway overpasses being modified. The farmers and ranchers in the California's central valley are rather upset with their land being chopped up for the sake of HSR. What's going to take a long time is the connection from the southern end of the central valley over the mountains to LA. I know I won't be around to ride it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/14 11:05 by Cupolau.

I read this thing and what I can make out of it is the waiver is for two prototypes, probably for testing not the eventual production.?????

As far as two years?????? to develop and shipping a prototype to NEC spec for the US????

As an add-on, I thought the NEC and California trains became separated in specification.

Bob Jordan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/14 11:34 by robj.

robj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read this thing and what I can make out of it is
> the waiver is for two prototypes, probably for
> testing not the eventual production.?????
>
> As far as two years?????? to develop and shipping
> a prototype to NEC spec for the US????
>
> As an add-on, I thought the NEC and California
> trains became separated in specification.
>
> Bob Jordan

How long did it take from planning to actual arrival of the Swedish and French electric locomotives in mid-70s?

robj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> As far as two years?????? to develop and shipping
> a prototype to NEC spec for the US????

>
> Bob Jordan


As a partner in a product design and engineering firm, I can assure you that two years on something that complex is rather aggressive. Heck, the companies we deal with sometimes take a year to bring an internet router to market. Worked recently on a desktop medical device that took almost two years from initiation to FDA testing.

For something like a high speed trainset, even based on existing technology, yeah, I would say 3 years minimum.

Z

3751_loony Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gotta start somewhere, hopefully more high speed
> equipment will be needed in the future and we can
> establish our own domestic HSR manufacturing
> facilities.
>
> Thanks for the link,


If there is a solid, large commitment to high-speed rail in the USA, then American industry will likely get interested. But the national public-policy ambivalence regarding fast trains is not encouraging -- the oil and automobile industries are more interested in their short-term profit than in competing technologies that might be better for the United States as a whole. And in this country, money talks.

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3751_loony Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gotta start somewhere, hopefully more high
> speed
> > equipment will be needed in the future and we
> can
> > establish our own domestic HSR manufacturing
> > facilities.
> >
> > Thanks for the link,
>
>
> If there is a solid, large commitment to
> high-speed rail in the USA, then American industry
> will likely get interested. But the national
> public-policy ambivalence regarding fast trains is
> not encouraging -- the oil and automobile
> industries are more interested in their short-term
> profit than in competing technologies that might
> be better for the United States as a whole. And in
> this country, money talks.


The changes in California HSR make it share tracks with local trains and freights at either end. Which means that US buffer strength, etc qualifications are needed. That rules out buying off the shelf European HSR technology.

How long did it take to modify the existing Siemens city sprinter to US rules and become Amtrak's ACS-64? Two years?

Still gonna be a waste once they (IF) finally build it!

It does feel like the CAHSRA is whistling by the graveyard a bit when it comes to financing and LA/SF access. We still need tens of billions of dollars to see the project through. And we still don't have a cohesive consensus or plan on how this train intends to meet up with LA/SF from the Central Valley. As a resident who voted for this project, I really wish they would level with us and put down the Kool-Aid if they're drinking it. Nobody is stepping up and answering the tough [but very fair] questions.

I agree with ColdRainAndSnow about needing honest answers about the true costs and plan for the CA HSR. I did not vote for the HSR not that I am fundamentally against HSR. But because I have lived in California long enough to know that what you vote on the ballet that is "promised" and what is delivered often aren't even close.

If Amtrak or CAHSR will seek Federal money for their train sets (Amtrak does NOT need them), the Congress has to appropriate the money, and they will certainly put a buy American provision in their money. But such a provision is really not so limiting any more with Siemens, etc. doing business in this country.

dropframe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with ColdRainAndSnow about needing honest
> answers about the true costs and plan for the CA
> HSR. I did not vote for the HSR not that I am
> fundamentally against HSR. But because I have
> lived in California long enough to know that what
> you vote on the ballet that is "promised" and what
> is delivered often aren't even close.


And being from there myself I know that all too well, it's been like 6 years and nothin's been broken up ground wise and they're still saying how great this is gonna be! I bet it didn't take this long when the Interstate Highway system got built starting in the 50s!

ProAmtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dropframe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I agree with ColdRainAndSnow about needing
> honest
> > answers about the true costs and plan for the
> CA
> > HSR. I did not vote for the HSR not that I am
> > fundamentally against HSR. But because I have
> > lived in California long enough to know that
> what
> > you vote on the ballet that is "promised" and
> what
> > is delivered often aren't even close.
>
>
> And being from there myself I know that all too
> well, it's been like 6 years and nothin's been
> broken up ground wise and they're still saying how
> great this is gonna be! I bet it didn't take this
> long when the Interstate Highway system got built
> starting in the 50s!

They started building the Interstate Highway System in 1956, and "finished" in the 1990s. After they deleted hundreds of miles that were not buildable. Like the Embarcadero Freeway in San Francisco, I-95 in Somerset County and I-278 in Union County NJ, etc.

35 years sounds about right for California HSR, too