Passenger Trains > Fred Frailey: almost all Long Distance trains downsizin

In his Trains.com blog entry today, Fred Frailey reports that for the off-season,
plans are for almost all of Amtrak's long distance trains to be downsized.

The only exceptions are the City of New Orleans (not stated, but the reason is
the minimum-size consist mandated by host railroad CN) and Sunset Limited-Texas Eagle
(no reason given).

This saves crew costs, wear and tear on the cars, and "allows preventative maintenance
to be performed," according to VP-Ops D. J. Stadtler.

Go to:

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey/archive/2014/12/18/amtrak-39-s-new-look.aspx



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/14 14:16 by GenePoon.

Makes sense to seasonally adjust capacity to demand. Reading between the lines, it also seems to be an admission that fare levels necessary to fill seats and berths during the slowest periods are below the point of positive contribution to the bottom line. I rode the Starlight in mid-November and was surprised by the number of unsold rooms in the train's three sleepers, despite lowest bucket fares being offered.

Dave

So the Seattle section of the EB gets just 1 coach & 1 sleeper ?
His math doesn't add up on the LSL.

With all these baggage car lines pulled off, with the 18 just delivered, and more to come, by March when the baggage car lines go back, I suspect few will be Heritage. So the last runs of many of them will be soon after the Holidays.

Does anybody really think they will catch up on maintenance ? If they re-purpose the reduced operating budget to the shops, they can, but I doubt it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/14 14:25 by joemvcnj.

Trains 58 and 59 have been downsized for a long time, with just one sleeper, no baggage car, and the extra engine and coach removed. The dining car was axed during the ill-conceived "cross country café" fiasco. The sightseer lounge car has been an off again on again deal, but in order to save switching cars in Chicago, it generally has been staying on in order to make the trainset interchangeable with the Texas Eagle when the Train 22 is late into Chicago. In short, there is nothing left to cut out.

It will be interesting to see if a baggage car shows back up in lieu of a revenue car at some point when the new baggage cars are fully deployed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/14 14:34 by NewRiverGeorge.

Is Mardi Gras in February, which generates tourist travel ? Evidently, that means nothing to Amtrak and the trains that serve NOL. So we rightsize so long as it means downsize, and leave revenue on the table.

Haven't heard if there are any special plans for Mardi Gras this year. Typically Amtrak HQ does not care, and only if there is a headsup line manager and if extra equipment and employees available is excess capacity even considered. In the past there have been entire carloads to or from Memphis if an extra coach were added. Unfortunately, the Crescent is usually shut down for trackwork windows during this time of the year, although the weekend trains usually run. Likewise, I don't know when the windows are this year or if they have been announced. NS and Amtrak do not consult with the Pope about their schedules, nor are huge regional events very often accommodated anywhere in the country.

Truly many missed opportunities exist to raise a ton of quick cash on deals like Mardi Gras, football playoffs, and super bowl type events. But, apparently it is too easy to be complacent. I have seen zero promotion or advertising even for the extra trains added for Thanksgiving. A press release from Amtrak on its webpage, maybe, if you are lucky.



joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is Mardi Gras in February, which generates tourist
> travel ? Evidently, that means nothing to Amtrak
> and the trains that serve NOL. So we rightsize so
> long as it means downsize, and leave revenue on
> the table.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/14 14:41 by NewRiverGeorge.

As mentioned here, the Texas Eagle, Sunset Limited, and City of New Orleans have operated with reduced consists for years. One sleeper, one locomotive, and no baggage car have been reality for about 8 or so years. The Sunset has two locomotives, but just one sleeper and two coaches LAX-NOL. Texas Eagle sleeper and coach add capacity west of San Antonio.

Mardi Gras business for New Orleans is disrupted by the lack of a Crescent M-TH for much of January and February. This happens every year due to N.S. work plans.

I am surprised that a coach will be removed from 97 and 98. These trains sill haul good loads in winter, and some weekends are near or at capacity.

I rode 51 last February and only two of the coaches were used.

I wonder of the Southwest Chief will operate with two unites with only six cars? Loco, two sleepers, diner, lounge, two coaches....

I hope Amtrak does well, and I hope that full consists return in the spring.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/14 17:08 by railaddict.

SP and ATSF Passenger trains rolling through here were downsized in the off-season. Check books on these trains and you will see summer and winter consists listed - cars were usually added around the holidays. I remember once in the late '50s when the SJ Daylights were longer because of an airline strike.
As I keep saying, railroads are a business and they have to watch their costs...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

railaddict Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As mentioned here, the Texas Eagle, Sunset
> Limited, and City of New Orleans have operated
> with reduced consists for years. One sleeper, one
> locomotive, and no baggage car have been reality
> for about 8 or so years. The Sunset has two
> locomotives, but just one sleeper and two coaches
> LAX-NOL. Texas Eagle sleeper and coach add
> capacity west of San Antonio.

Also eight rooms for sale in the transition dorm.

> I am surprised that a coach will be removed from
> 97 and 98. These trains sill haul good loads in
> winter, and some weekends are near or at
> capacity.

Seems like LD coach traffic has been weakening for years. Competition from low airfares, Megabus and now cheap gas erodes the price-driven portion of the market. But you're right, it seems if Amtrak could fill coaches anywhere in winter it should be on the East Coast/Florida runs.

Dave

DavidP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Seems like LD coach traffic has been weakening for
> years. Competition from low airfares, Megabus and
> now cheap gas erodes the price-driven portion of
> the market. But you're right, it seems if Amtrak
> could fill coaches anywhere in winter it should be
> on the East Coast/Florida runs.

I'm always amazed at the shear ignorance of travel demand people show.

January and February are the lowest demand months on Amtrak, and not by a little bit. The fantasy of winter traffic to Florida, if it was ever true since demand in the summer is so much higher than demand in the winter, is certainly not true in those months. The real winter traffic to Florida is shoulder month travel in December, March, and April. Florida is cold in the winter too. Only someone who has never been there in February would think there is raging demand by beachgoers.

Sleeper traffic on long distance trains falls of 25% in January and February and coach traffic falls of 20%, with falls on some trains being much more dramatic.

As to coach traffic weakening, Amtrak travel on Long Distance trains is significantly higher now than the 1970's and has been generally trending upwards since the cuts made in the mid-1990's. The only weakeness is the periodic pruning of lines.

Seasonal swings are most pronounced on the western trains and Palmetto, which lose 40-50% of their traffic base in January and February. So if there is only demand for one sleeper, why run two? Why run three coaches when not even two will fill? To add car miles and waste fuel and labor? It would make more sense to ensure that the cars are in great shape for the times of highest demand so that the shops can be emptied then - Thanksgiving, Christmas, Spring Break, and Summer.

Nothing unusual about this. It's a well established practice dating way back in railroad history.

Today's freight railroads did this all the time, when they ran passenger trains. Most of the Western trains of the UP, ATSF, GN, NP, etc., were all cut back in the off season--and some of this released equipment wound up on the IC's City of Miami; and other Eastern trains serving Florida.

Joe

PS: what I'd like to know is--how does the CN get away with limiting the consist of the City of New Orleans? Just more proof that Amtrak has no control over anything--not even the make up of it's trains. Wish Amtrak could add this to their law suit against CN.

I travel on 97/98 during Presidents Day week every year and those trains regularly carry 5 or 6 coaches. I'm sure the people at Amtrak know that the Florida trains are exceptions to the "usual" busy times. It would make far more sense to drop a coach or two from these trains in the summer...

To be profitable they will need to eliminate all power for these trains and simply have switchers tag these remaining cars on the end of freights 'going that way'.
There will be no need of sleepers as they can't sell the rooms now. The roomettes start out at +/- $500 or whatever, closer to the trip when most are not sold the price is increased by 50% to 'force' people to get on board. The two days prior to the train leaving ( if it ever does ) the roomettes are now 2.5 times the original price as a penalty to all you lazy twits that wouldn't get on board earlier. Next time you will learn. Ve haff vays auf makin'k you pay !
All reasons for travel should be flexible so just get there when you get there and quit whining !
All cars will be coaches, even if they look like baggage cars inside. Just find a spot and set down. Or stand, whatever it takes.
The rail czar will make this work, he is in charge.
Happy days.

Canadian runs with up to 25 cars in Summer. As few as 9 in Winter. So no different north of the border. Just more of a swing due to all the seasonal tourist business.

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> PS: what I'd like to know is--how does the CN get
> away with limiting the consist of the City of New
> Orleans?

They own the track, they make the rules.....

...and just like "fuel surcharges", this "seasonal only" change will be permanent, and not reset. It would be wonderful to see cars processed through the maintenance cycle, but...when reality sets in, it's obvious it's a forlorn hope. *MAYBE* one car per set will be cycled and then it will be time to ramp back up - but lo! Cars left on are no longer viable. There are no clothes on the emperor, and no cash available.

It's a circle the drain spiral. First the paper clips, then the "copy on both sides of paper", then the "print only in b/w", then the "remove flowers", then "remove china, silver service", then "reduce crew size", then remove wine tastings, then remove the 1st class lounge - temporarily - on the Starlight; add 2 hours to the EB schedule; defer maintenance; reduce train size "seasonally"; glub, glub, glub

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> floridajoe2001 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > PS: what I'd like to know is--how does the CN
> get
> > away with limiting the consist of the City of
> New
> > Orleans?
>
> They own the track, they make the rules.....

The point is that CN sets a high minimum consist size, not a maximum. Otherwise Amtrak wouldn't be adding a unit and a half dozen PVs as they sometimes do. The minimum size has to do with axle count allegedly needed to activate crossing grade protection.

Dave

Fine practice when they ran several trains a day, utterly sad now. Can't even fill up one sleeper between multimillion people cities? Was just wondering today when the sleepers will die ala Europe. Preemptive strike for the January Congress shift, or sneak attack to gut and devalue LDT's? With other modes doing a better job and cheap gas prices, opponents have lots of ammo. Ride 'em while you can ...

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing unusual about this. It's a well
> established practice dating way back in railroad
> history.

rswebber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...and just like "fuel surcharges", this "seasonal
> only" change will be permanent, and not reset. It
> would be wonderful to see cars processed through
> the maintenance cycle, but...when reality sets in,
> it's obvious it's a forlorn hope. *MAYBE* one car
> per set will be cycled and then it will be time to
> ramp back up - but lo! Cars left on are no longer
> viable. There are no clothes on the emperor, and
> no cash available.
>
> It's a circle the drain spiral. First the paper
> clips, then the "copy on both sides of paper",
> then the "print only in b/w", then the "remove
> flowers", then "remove china, silver service",
> then "reduce crew size", then remove wine
> tastings, then remove the 1st class lounge -
> temporarily - on the Starlight; add 2 hours to the
> EB schedule; defer maintenance; reduce train size
> "seasonally"; glub, glub, glub

I hold out hope, but fear that you are right.

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> floridajoe2001 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > PS: what I'd like to know is--how does the CN
> get
> > away with limiting the consist of the City of
> New
> > Orleans?
>
> They own the track, they make the rules.....

They own the track. While Amtrak runs the trains they--and their predecessor roads were RELIEVED of running in 1971!!! And it used to be Amtrak that "made the damn rules."