Passenger Trains > 4th Track at Albany-Rensselaer

I passed through Albany-Rensselaer this past Tuesday evening on the WB Lakes Shore to Chicago. I could see the construction on the extension of the existing platforms but was not able to make out any additional trackwork. My question is, where is the 4th track going in? It looked like they were doing some construction between the first platform and the station building but was unable to get over there to look and it was dark. Any information?

Also, the trip on the Lake Shore was excellent. Great SCA named Kory, good dining car service, and we were EARLY into Chicago! Station stops were announced and the train was clean. A good trip.

Yes, the 4th track will be in between the first platform and the station.

John

Starting on page 4 of "Attachment 3 Statement of Work" of the "Empire Corridor Capacity Improvements" .pdf at the NYSDOT web site you'll find a ton of project detail:

https://www.dot.ny.gov/recovery/repository/FRA_Agreement_FR-HSR-0086-11-01-00_Empire_Corridor_Capacity_Improvement.pdf

Attached are two excerpt snapshots describing the A/R station track and platform upgrades.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/14 03:16 by JPB.

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At the onset of my railroading career in 1999, we bid on a job with Amtrak to design the 4th track in the station and the double track back to Schenectady. Its appalling how long this all takes.

I suppose this is what happens when your engineering budget is held hostage by Rocla and its bankruptcy threat. Check how much money Amtrak has spent over the past 10 years replacing defectivce Rocla concrete ties, and then think about what could have been done with that money instead.

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At the onset of my railroading career in 1999, we
> bid on a job with Amtrak to design the 4th track
> in the station and the double track back to
> Schenectady. Its appalling how long this all
> takes.
>
> I suppose this is what happens when your
> engineering budget is held hostage by Rocla and
> its bankruptcy threat. Check how much money
> Amtrak has spent over the past 10 years replacing
> defectivce Rocla concrete ties, and then think
> about what could have been done with that money
> instead.

For folks who are not familiar with this situation, could you give a short background?

The Albany station project, and the concrete tie replacement project seem to be "forever"

Had seen this ongoing construction. Last time I saw it was the first of Sept as we had made an unexpected trip from Garden City via the Chief.
Thanks for the extra info on the project.

Posted from Android

There is lots of blame to go around for this situation.

At least part of it lies not with Amtrak, but with the local transit agency (CDTA) which actually owns the station. The station construction was far, far over budget and my understanding is that the completion of the 4th track was a casualty of the last minute cost cutting necessary to get the thing "completed". The cost for this can be seen any afternoon/ evening when the the Late for Sure Limited is being grafted together (westbound) or split apart (eastbound). It is very difficult to get any other trains into or out of the station when this operation is taking place.

Delays to other trains, even the ones that just originate/terminate at ALB, are common. If you add in a possible engine change on the Adirondack or the Maple Leaf (both of which arrive eastbound in this time window, and may be coming in with a Genesis unit that lacks third rail capability for NYP) and you can build a cluster-f** situation very easily. It's not unheard of to have 4 trains in the area simultaneously, none of them simply making a station call and moving on.

As for double tracking to Schenectady, that project has been "just around the corner" for what, 20 years now? 25?
The biggest hang up was with the NY legislature and NY's legendary high property taxes for railroad property. CSX at one point figured out that the property tax bill for this line would increase substantially if the line were to be double tracked. CSX gains virtually nothing from this project--there is no through freight service on the line, just a big daily local into the West Albany tank car facility from the main line, and two dinky locals that go beyond to Rensselaer or Troy on alternating days. So they refused to allow the project to proceed. It took the legislature well over a decade to act on this (the legislative leadership is from NY city and doesn't give a rat's about upstate issues like this), and eventually the issue was resolved with some sort of lease deal that lowers the tax bill and gives AMT more operational control of the line.

My understanding is that this is not a simple matter of adding a second track to what had once been a 4 track ROW. The 1978 rebuild (the one that brought passenger service back to downtown Schenectady) re-centered the line on bridges and grade crossings, so the now-existing track will need to be nudged over to the side in order for the second line to be added. Maybe somebody else knows the details on this and can share info here.

Finally now, dirt is moving and it looks like we might have a real railroad in a few more months.

Thanks for that summary. relocating the current line to add the second track sounds like it could take a while to get traction.

I've often wondered why Amtrak didn't take the opportunity to lease/upgrade the long siding (Carman branch?) and add a second track on the hillside, where it looks like there's considerable room. Kids often race their ATVs there.

If they put in those two pieces of track, they'd add a lot of operational flexibility. Converting an 18 mile single track to half that, with much more passing potential. If Amtrak handled the dispatching on the line, they could do a lot with it.

Amtrak now dispatches this line all the way from Poughkeepsie to Hoffmans (CP 169).

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> abyler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > At the onset of my railroading career in 1999,
> we
> > bid on a job with Amtrak to design the 4th
> track
> > in the station and the double track back to
> > Schenectady. Its appalling how long this all
> > takes.
> >
> > I suppose this is what happens when your
> > engineering budget is held hostage by Rocla and
> > its bankruptcy threat. Check how much money
> > Amtrak has spent over the past 10 years
> replacing
> > defectivce Rocla concrete ties, and then think
> > about what could have been done with that money
> > instead.
>
> For folks who are not familiar with this
> situation, could you give a short background?

Amtrak ran the Track Laying Machine (TLM) like crazy in the late 1990's and early 2000's using in part the $2 billion in cash Congress gifted Amtrak. It turned out it was all for nought as they installed hundreds of thousands of defective concrete ties on the local tracks in NJ and Maryland and elsewhere, in project areas like Secaucus and Newark Airport, and in New England. The tiese were made by Rocla in Delaware and suffer from alkaline-silica reaction that causes advanced decay of the concrete and the ties to fail in service after just a handful of years. Amtrak was not the only one to so suffer. LIRR and MBTA and PATCO, among others, also installed these ties.

When these companies went to Rocla for warranty replacement, I have heard Rocla threatened bankruptcy in response and instead of providing a full recompense is only providing new ties at a discount price. This means Amtrak has to (1) pay for constant concrete tie inspections by an outside firm (HNTB), (2) spot replace ties as they fail on overnight maintenance, and (3) schedule new TLM runs on tracks that had suppsoedly been made good for 50 years maintenance free service just 10-15 years ago.

So if you look at Amtrak's MOW budget over the past ten years, and also the ARRA spending plan, you will see many tens of millions of dollars every year being used to run 1 or 2 TLM systems on Amtrak's dime to do nothing but replace defective concrete ties. This is money that per Amtrak's engineering plans of a decade ago should have been spent on high speed interlockings, curve realignments, deficient bridges, new tracks like the Albany 4th track, rebuilding old maintenance failities like Sunnyside Yard, renewing catenary poles and wires, expanding busy stations like BWI and Metropark with center island platforms, and installing Rule 562 signalling.

Before it is all over, I think Amtrak will have spent near $1B on the activity of simply replacing defective ties that should never have failed to begin with. In all it was a huge setback for capital expansion on the NEC and Hudson, Harrisburg, and Springfield lines as well as Amtrak terminal maintenance around the country.

These are some other projects Amtrak put to design around 1999-2002 and then shelved until just recently:
1) renew Hudson Interlocking crossovers and catenary
2) BWI center island platform (and design for future 4th track).
3) new Harmon and Carroll interlockings
4) realign Bridge interlocking

> The Albany station project, and the concrete tie
> replacement project seem to be "forever"

They have been.

Thanks for that excellent summary.

Your comments also tie back to other threads, in that a supplier's bankruptcy can cost the buyer time and more money. In some cases, bonding the transaction can guarantee a stand-by payment etc if the seller fails to deliver as promised.

It's a shame to see hundreds of millions of dollars literally thrown away