Passenger Trains > Private Car Op Costs

What are the costs to operate a private car behind Amtrak? When I punched tickets for the old SP it was 22 FIRST CLASS fares for the same trip in an SP car. How about switching costs? Storage? Any other fees associated with a movement?



Thanks

Take a look at http://www.amtrak.com/privately-owned-rail-cars for a start.

Then try this one http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/683/841/Private-Car-Tariff.pdf

This may not be up to date but these are the required standards http://rpca.com/pdfs/AmtrakSMP286031982.pdf

After that you should have some ideas. Others can probably give you some practical advice.

John

Amtrak Addendum to Private Car Tariff, showing the amount Amtrak bills for
various services:

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/1019/482/Private-Car-Tariff-Rates-Addendum-2.pdf

On a related note, there are many costs associated with continual operation (and occasional upgrades and the like) of pvs. We are currently adding interior heat to the Pacific Trail (ex UP, 1950 44 seat chair by PS). Came "online" early Dec. from Amtrak required truck rebuild with no intentions of heating as SoCal based car. Then promptly got request to join Reno Fun Train and heat was now important!

1st pic - When car purchased in '83, first desire was to de-Amtrak the interior ... but not perfectly completed. Carpet on the walls is a bane to any purist, but the residue of carpet glue was impossible to remove, so, regrettably, brown carpet was reinstalled to allow car to, as quickly as possible, enter "private car service". In this picture, seats are moved, heaters prepared, and steam grilles are being removed. UNFORUNATLY ... steam grille removal revealed problem ... Masonite walls very deteriorated by 65 years of service and occasional water leaks ... metal band behind grilles that held them in place, detached from Masonite prompting renewing of walls (only plus side to "expanded project", good by "wall to wall carpet"!!!)

2nd pic - Some more surprises under carpet, evidence of original "card table" mounts. Tired (but still functional) insulation, some rust and corrosion, but car still in pretty good shape.

3rd pic - nearing completion, new painted Masonite, hydronic heaters installed, new fasteners and more.

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Unfortunately, that is typical of Budd cars - the body itself rarely leaks, water comes via the windows and doors.

As far back as the mid-50s, when P-S regional reps went to various railroad-run shops, they reported on the problems with Budd walls & sub-floors. ACL, as a preventative measure (this after they had to repair a Budd car involved in a derailment)replaced all sub-flooring and lower walls in their Budd cars.

ACF cars had more of a problem, leaking via their roof sheets. But, again, the sub-floor and lower walls were the biggest issues (along with vestibules).

Shortly after the PACIFICs came on-line, a P-S rep in Chicago visited one of the cars at Union Station. His report, which is basically a comparison between the PACIFICs and the latest P-S 10-6 offerings is illuminating. About 20 photos, and detailed descriptions of the features in the cars and what made them better/worse/different than the relative P-S feature.

Amtrak also created a number of drawings for PACIFICs as they rotated them through, I believe we have the original Budd & the Amtrak drawings now. I know we have the Amtrak wiring drawings. Entertaining to see the differences.

I wondering if PV rates are remunerative for Amtrak?

Of course. Gravy.



ts1457 Wrote:
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> I wondering if PV rates are remunerative for
> Amtrak?

Posted from Android

Amtrak current PV rates: 1st car $2.75 per mile, $1250 minimum per move. Requires annual inspection which is paid for by car owner. Car owner pays for all maintenance. Parking is additional at stations en-route such as Portland, New Orleans, San Antonio and St. Louis. Car storage at Amtrak facilities is $1450 per car per month. Car owners provide $2 million / $4 million insurance.
This revenue is pure gravy for Amtrak. They have almost no incremental costs of handling a private car except perhaps fuel costs. They have no equipment costs, no liability costs, no repair expenses, and they charge an annual fee of $250 per car to cover office record keeping!.

Currently, about 80 passenger cars are privately owned (not including railroad owned cars such as UP or BNSF). Annual revenue ranges from $5 to $7 million per year, but is expected to drop 25% this year because of the huge, most recent price hikes.

Most businesses would die for similar deals!!

TIOGA PASS

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar

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Where ya' going JP? PV to Orlando?

I don't know why, but there seems to be a strain of thinking on TO that private cars are a boondoggle and are worse than real flowers and plates for Amtrak. Every quarter it seems, there is a thinly veiled comment that perhaps Amtrak isn't making enough - no - ANY money on PV movements, and that it is far undervalued and under paid.

I guess this comes from the care free smiles you see on the back platform. Not that most of those smiles are from the PV owners themselves.

rswebber Wrote:
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> I don't know why, but there seems to be a strain
> of thinking on TO that private cars are a
> boondoggle and are worse than real flowers and
> plates for Amtrak.

If you are talking about my question, I certainly did not mean to imply that the PVs are a boondoggle. I think they are a good example of the free market at work.

Thanks Norm,

Your TIOGA PASS looks beautiful. So jealous. Myself and GYAlITE once came close to buying a car of our own. This was just after Amtrak took over and you could actually buy a U.P. Dome lounge or Dinner just off COLA service for $10,000. The NATIONAL series sleepers were going for $2,500. At that time Amtrak didn't seem to encourage PVT movements, as an example they would not haul any cars that were not painted in Amtrak paint scheme. Anyway we didn't make the move.

One of the costs you didn't mention was switching. What does AMT charge to say move the car from one train and attach it to another?

Thanks again,,

Pat

Cabhop Wrote:
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> What are the costs to operate a private car behind
> Amtrak?

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

There are no switching charges usually - such as on and off the train, connections, etc.

Norm

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar

In Silver Rapids we have been actively getting rid of the hydronic heaters that had been installed by the previous owner. They are slow to heat up, slow to cool, and when (not IF) they leak they smell like burning paint thinner. Then they stop heating at all. We've been putting in finned cal rods. The least expensive source is to buy complete baseboard heaters then remove and throw away the sheet metal cans. Remount the cal rods in the heater space and button everything up. They work fine, and cannot leak!

I was able to rent norms car for my 30th wedding anniversary. Lax-San. What a blast! Thx Norm!

JohnM Wrote:
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> I was able to rent norms car for my 30th wedding
> anniversary. Lax-San. What a blast! Thx
> Norm!

Norm Orfall (Tioga Pass Private car) is an OUTSTANDING HOST! Excellent service, very safety conscious and kind with everyone. I would recommend to friends and family!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/15 01:27 by Geep.

Geep Wrote:
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> JohnM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I was able to rent norms car for my 30th
> wedding
> > anniversary. Lax-San. What a blast! Thx
> > Norm!
>
> Norm Orfall (Tioga Pass Private car) is an
> OUTSTANDING HOST! Excellent service, very safety
> conscious and kind with everyone. I would
> recommend to friends and family!

I will concur and add that I have met and ridden with all the other car owners at LARail and have enjoyed traveling with them on trips both local to CA and coast-to-coast the past several years. Though it becomes harder to afford with Amtrak's recent price increases, this group still provides the best trip experience and service for the cost that I have found.

Dave B.

Ditto to postings from John, Geep, and Dave regarding Norm, Tioga Pass, and LA Rail!!!

Ditto again for all of LARail! Norm, I still have that "International" truck shirt for you!