Passenger Trains > New Miami Amtrak Station now set to open mid 2016

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article8224242.html

How, if at all, will the Amtrak station in Miami connect to the new FEC/AAF operation?

This is not a very attractive facility! As for the train length....aren't the Florida trains about the same length as they have always been? No one knew this when they designed the platforms? Did it ever occur to anyone Amtrak might someday have the equipment to make the trains longer? Looks like incompetence all around.

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is not a very attractive facility! As for the
> train length....aren't the Florida trains about
> the same length as they have always been? No one
> knew this when they designed the platforms? Did
> it ever occur to anyone Amtrak might someday have
> the equipment to make the trains longer? Looks
> like incompetence all around.

There's a long thread about the Florida station in the archives.

To summarize:
--FDOT asked Amtrak about train lengths during design, Amtrak didn't reply
--Amtrak informed FDOT during construction that its trains would overhang a busy street
--Lots of hollering and shouting
--Construction began

It's amazing to me that the station will take four years longer to build than the six story parking garage, rental car facility, bus terminal etc to which it is attached

Really a sad state of affairs...this country is doomed...

Reminds me of the Temp Denver Union Station: Stakeholder Amtrak sat at the back of the room and slept soundly.

In the Multimodal Center, the car rental facility has been open several years. Then the automated train from the MIC to to the airport terminal began service. Then the extension of Metrorail transit line to the MIC opened. The rail station is the remaing piece.

I am puzzled why they have delayed allowing TriRail commuter trains to return to the location. The platforms seem to have been in place for over a year.

While the desire is to have many modes of transportation in on location, one might wonder how much Amtrak wants to move. Their present location is served by public buses, and is very short walk to MetroRail and TriRail station. And adjacent to their maintenance and cleaning/provisioning facilities.

The old Seaboard station on 7th Ave was further away than the MIC will be but the latter is still possibly to lengthy for a reverse move (arriving and departing). There was a wye just north of the MIC but it appears the rail was moved and heavy vegetation occupies the ROW.

Anaheim/Artic looks like a giant peel bug. Solana Beach looks like an ugly quansit hut with a prison watch tower. Oceanside Miami and many others look so drab and lifeless. Why do they have to look like something from another planet? They are so ugly to me. As for many other train stations like the Santa Fe Depot in downtown San Diego now there's one beautiful train station. Why can't they be built like that anymore?

njmidland Wrote:
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> How, if at all, will the Amtrak station in Miami
> connect to the new FEC/AAF operation?

At the MIC, just get on an Orange Line train and go to Government Center. The new AAF station and complex will be adjacent.

One other thing: there is a plan to run Tri-Rail over to the new downtown station, once it's finished, via a connection at Iris I believe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/15 07:15 by sums007.

njmidland Wrote:
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> How, if at all, will the Amtrak station in Miami
> connect to the new FEC/AAF operation?


Per Google maps the current Amtrak Station is near Hialeah FL, not downtown Miami. It is about 83rd St. NW & 37th Ave NW, quite far from downtown Miami. The AAF/FEC Station will be at 1st Ave NW & 5th St NW, right downtown.

The FEC tracks out of DT Miami mostly follow US Hiway 1 to the North & East; away from the airport. I suppose the hope is someday to bring Amtrak trains down the FEC route from Jacksonville to the AAF/FEC Station. Of course then what would you do with the Amtrak investment in the “Miami Central Station”.

The new Amtrak station at the Miami Int’l Airport will be at 25th St. NW & 38th AVE NW. It is still quite far from downtown Miami. IMO it's like the Empire Builder stopping at O’Hare instead of Union Station and calling it ‘Chicago’. That is unless Amtrak intends to run on Tri-Rail from the airport to the new AFF/FEC Station. I’m not that familiar with Miami regional rail plans

There could also be some name confusion here as the AAF/FEC Station/Office tower complex appears to be referred to in the press as “MiamiCentral”. The Amtrak Station at the Miami Int’l Airport is being called “Miami Central Station”.

msdgbar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anaheim/Artic looks like a giant peel bug. Solana
> Beach looks like an ugly quansit hut with a prison
> watch tower. Oceanside Miami and many others look
> so drab and lifeless. Why do they have to look
> like something from another planet? They are so
> ugly to me.

Maybe the station designers are competing for an entry in William Kunstler's
"Eyesore of the Month."

LINK:

Featured Eyesore of the Month

The Amtrak station in St. Louis has already been so honored, four years ago.
"This monstrosity" was noted as being "an utterly bewildering piece-of-shit
shoehorned under a bunch of freeway ramps behind a UPS depot parking lot.
Where's the Prozac dispenser?"

"It is a nasty pocket in the city's neglected back yard, and the first things
you see when you exit the station are the dark parking lot under the overpasses,
weed-choked vacant lots, and abandoned, shacky little buildings."

The rail facilities, which at the time lacked capacity for expansion of train
service, were also lambasted.

Meanwhile, Mr. Kunstler pointed out the still-magnificent St. Louis Union
Station a short distance away.

Ugly train stations have some mighty awesome (awful?) competition, though.
Below is an example...and it isn't even new, dating from 1991. Other
selections have included inanities such as crosswalks in Pennsylvania
that lead to a pocket on the opposite side of the street, with no
sidewalk there to go anywhere.

To be truly appalled, check out the Eyesores that are/were PROPOSED, not
just the ones actually built.

Those with a suggestion for a future Eyesore can send Mr. Kunstler an
E-mail; the address is noted on his homepage http://kunstler.com/



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/15 07:38 by GenePoon.

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---

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> andersonb109 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is not a very attractive facility! As for
> the
> > train length....aren't the Florida trains about
> > the same length as they have always been? No
> one
> > knew this when they designed the platforms?
> Did
> > it ever occur to anyone Amtrak might someday
> have
> > the equipment to make the trains longer? Looks
> > like incompetence all around.
>
> There's a long thread about the Florida station in
> the archives.
>
> To summarize:
> --FDOT asked Amtrak about train lengths during
> design, Amtrak didn't reply
> --Amtrak informed FDOT during construction that
> its trains would overhang a busy street
> --Lots of hollering and shouting
> --Construction began

No answer was required. Amtrak has publicly available station design criteria on its website, and this information has been available for at least a decade. Long Distance stations call for a 1200 ft. long platform. All they had to do was follow the criteria which accomodaters a 2 engine 12 car train with a buffer margin.

The fail of these local designers is why Amtrak generally uses northeast based consultants for design work in Florida.

abyler Wrote:

> No answer was required. Amtrak has publicly
> available station design criteria on its website,
> and this information has been available for at
> least a decade. Long Distance stations call for a
> 1200 ft. long platform. All they had to do was
> follow the criteria which accomodaters a 2 engine
> 12 car train with a buffer margin.
>
> The fail of these local designers is why Amtrak
> generally uses northeast based consultants for
> design work in Florida.

========================================================

If Amtrak thinks this is adequate consideration for its "state and local partners,"
they don't understand what "due consideration" and "arrogance" mean.

Are such arrogance and lack of consideration an Amtrak problem, or a Northeastern one?
Or are the two one and the same?

Remember, too, that Amtrak has victimized the people of Lancaster PA...in the
Northeast.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/15 08:01 by GenePoon.

Amtrak is afraid to respond to requests like this, on grounds that it might be asked to contribute.

In any case, they can just continue to use the station they already have if the new one doesn't meet their needs.

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amtrak is afraid to respond to requests like this,
> on grounds that it might be asked to contribute.
>
> In any case, they can just continue to use the
> station they already have if the new one doesn't
> meet their needs.


I suspect their desire is to continue the use of their current station. It fits their needs, works for their customers, and is near their service base.

So why change locations, and incur additional expense? Let FDOT and Tri-Rail do their thing.

prech786 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Per Google maps the current Amtrak Station is near
> Hialeah FL, not downtown Miami. It is about 83rd
> St. NW & 37th Ave NW, quite far from downtown
> Miami. The AAF/FEC Station will be at 1st Ave NW
> & 5th St NW, right downtown.
>
> The FEC tracks out of DT Miami mostly follow US
> Hiway 1 to the North & East; away from the
> airport. I suppose the hope is someday to bring
> Amtrak trains down the FEC route from Jacksonville
> to the AAF/FEC Station. Of course then what would
> you do with the Amtrak investment in the “Miami
> Central Station”.
>
> The new Amtrak station at the Miami Int’l
> Airport will be at 25th St. NW & 38th AVE NW. It
> is still quite far from downtown Miami. IMO it's
> like the Empire Builder stopping at O’Hare
> instead of Union Station and calling it
> ‘Chicago’. That is unless Amtrak intends to
> run on Tri-Rail from the airport to the new
> AFF/FEC Station. I’m not that familiar with
> Miami regional rail plans
>
> There could also be some name confusion here as
> the AAF/FEC Station/Office tower complex appears
> to be referred to in the press as
> “MiamiCentral”. The Amtrak Station at the
> Miami Int’l Airport is being called “Miami
> Central Station”.

The location of the current Amtrak Miami station is at the
south end of Hialeah yards. It's actually wihin the loop
track. After Amtrak unloads, they only need to drag the
train a few hundred feet to the wash rack, run it around the
loop and drop it in the coach yard.

With respect to the FEC, the main line comes into Miami,
and turns west around the vicinity of NW 95 st. (not a good
area of town). This line crosses CSX. I don't recall if
there is a connection between the FEC and CSX at that point.

When Amtrak was still using the old SAL 7th Ave station, they
needed to employ a switcher to drag the train from the yards into
the station and vice-versa. This is why the current station is
located where it is.

Meanwhile, if anybody has a copy of Trainsimulator 2015 (Railworks),
their Miami/WPB route that came out a few months ago actually has
trains running in/out of the new station by the airport.

<Amtrak is afraid to respond to requests like this, on grounds that it might be asked to contribute.
In any case, they can just continue to use the station they already have if the new one doesn't meet their needs.>

An emphatic "NO" and a one sentence explanation could have taken care of that rather than simply sitting there like dumb bells and getting moved into a crappy station.

The explanation that "our specs are on our website, they should have looked" comports very well with how many government agencies and enterprises work.

"If we don't hear from you by such and such a date, this proposal will be final" is pretty typical. If each side takes the position that the other side should be doing something, it is pretty likely nothing will be done.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The explanation that "our specs are on our
> website, they should have looked" comports very
> well with how many government agencies and
> enterprises work.
>
> "If we don't hear from you by such and such a
> date, this proposal will be final" is pretty
> typical. If each side takes the position that the
> other side should be doing something, it is pretty
> likely nothing will be done.

I wasn't trying to imply that at all. I suspect the designers were told to use the spec and that it is on the website if they were not emailed or otherwise transmitted a copy of it.

Its inexplicable to me as a consultant that a qualified Architecture/Engineering consultant working on a station design project for an Amtrak service would be unaware of their standards and where to find them, or if somehow they did not know, that they failed to ask for an obtain the latest version. This is normal standard of care type behavior a consultant shoudl undertake.

I wouldn't expect Amtrak would answer a question along the lines of "how long should I make the platform - I need to know the consist you run today" since that is the wrong question and was probably posed I suspect to the wrong person at Amtrak. The Amtrak Engineering contact in Florida at the time was well aware of this project and was not invited to be a part of it, and I am pretty sure the Division Engineer and ADE in charge of stations weren't asked to participate either. The government agency people involved knew who the local contact was and how to reach him - he had only been doing station projects with them for 20 years. He and I discussed the project at length and its shortcomings several times. You can't provide help if people won't ask you for it and insist on doing things their way.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The explanation that "our specs are on our
> website, they should have looked" comports very
> well with how many government agencies and
> enterprises work.

Both my wife and I have worked in the private sector for over 35 years. The government is not the only entity that functions like that. There is more to this story methinks.
>
> "If we don't hear from you by such and such a
> date, this proposal will be final" is pretty
> typical. If each side takes the position that the
> other side should be doing something, it is pretty
> likely nothing will be done.