Passenger Trains > J&C: Hoosier State Amtrak line to end April 2

Hoosier State Amtrak line to end April 2
Lafayette Journal & Courier
by Chris Morisse Vizza

> The Indiana Department of Transportation today announced that the
> Hoosier State passenger rail line, which operates four days per week
> between Indianapolis and Chicago, will have its last day of service
> on Wednesday, April 1.
>
> The announcement follows a Federal Railroad Administration decision
> requiring the state of Indiana to serve as a railroad, even though it
> owns no track or trains.
>
> "Passenger rail providers and the host railroads are already required
> to comply with FRA rules," said INDOT Commissioner Karl Browning.
>
> "Requiring a redundant layer of bureaucracy would not create
> improvements in passenger rail service or safety, it would only
> increase taxpayer costs."

LINK:

Hoosier State Amtrak line to end April 2



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/15 09:40 by GenePoon.

Here is the Indiana Department of Transportation press release:

INDIANA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
News Release

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
March 6, 2015

Hoosier State Passenger Rail Service to End April 1
FRA to classify state rail sponsors as railroad carriers

INDIANAPOLIS – The Indiana Department of Transportation today announced that the Hoosier State passenger rail line, which operates four days per week between Indianapolis and Chicago, will have its last day of service on Wednesday, April 1.

The announcement follows a Federal Railroad Administration decision requiring the state of Indiana to serve as a railroad, even though it owns no track or trains.

“Passenger rail providers and the host railroads are already required to comply with FRA rules,” said INDOT Commissioner Karl Browning. “Requiring a redundant layer of bureaucracy would not create improvements in passenger rail service or safety, it would only increase taxpayer costs.”

Proposed long-term service
INDOT has been working for a year to improve the Hoosier State service, and had been making progress in negotiating long-term agreements with two experienced passenger rail providers.

“INDOT thanks our partners Amtrak and Iowa Pacific Holdings as we worked together to preserve the Hoosier State service,” Browning said.

Under the proposed service, Amtrak would have served as the primary operator, working with host railroads, providing train and engine crews, and managing reservation and ticketing. This would have taken advantage of the priority access and pricing that Amtrak enjoys with the host railroads. Iowa Pacific would have provided the train equipment, train maintenance, on-board services and marketing.

The proposed service was modeled after Amtrak’s successful Piedmont service, which operates between Charlotte and Raleigh, N.C. The North Carolina Department of Transportation owns the track over which the Piedmont operates, and contracted with Amtrak and private contractors to improve and grow passenger rail.

NCDOT sued the FRA in 2008 when it attempted to place the same impediments on the Piedmont service. INDOT was unsuccessful in convincing the FRA to formally reconsider its decision. Copies of INDOT’s correspondence with FRA and letter of intent with Iowa Pacific are available at www.in.gov/indot/3200.htm.

States as railroads
Congress voted in 2008 to end federal funding for certain Amtrak routes of less than 750 miles. Six years later, the FRA is developing rules governing states that now support the cost of passenger rail services.

Under new rules that the FRA is testing with Indiana, all states that support passenger rail services would be considered railroad carriers. This burdensome interpretation exposes states to significant increases in cost, paperwork and liability, including:

• Liability for the actions of passenger rail providers up to $200 million for each occurrence of injury, death or property damage,
• Hiring new staff to monitor plans and programs in compliance with federal rules, and
• Interpretation that state employees are rail employees, subject to retirement and employer liability rules and limits.

Indianapolis-Chicago transportation
After April 1, INDOT encourages Hoosier State travelers to take advantage of alternative transportation options between Indianapolis and Chicago:

1. Amtrak’s Cardinal service (Trains 50 & 51) will continue to operate three days per week – Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays northbound and Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays southbound – with intermediate stops in Crawfordsville, Lafayette, Rensselaer and Dyer. Tickets are available at www.amtrak.com, 800-USA-RAIL and other sales channels, including Amtrak mobile apps.

2. Greyhound offers express bus service with intermediate stops in Lafayette. In addition, INDOT uses federal transit funds to support once-daily regional service with stops in Merrillville, Gary and Hammond. For fare and schedule information and to buy tickets, call 800-661-8747 or visit www.greyhound.com.

3. Megabus offers frequent express bus service. Visit www.megabus.com for additional information about the service, schedules, arrival and departure times and fares.

4. American and United airlines offer frequent nonstop service between Indianapolis and Chicago O’Hare international airports. Purchase tickets at www.aa.com or www.united.com.

--30--

MEDIA CONTACT: Will Wingfield, 317-233-4675 or wwingfield@indot.in.gov



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/15 09:51 by eee.

Fast track backwards.

FRA: We're from Washington, and we're here to help.

So how did it happen that Amtrak is slowly absolving itself of operating a national rail passenger system? Unbelievable.

Perhaps Amtrak will now run the Cardinal daily. Yeah, right.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/15 10:36 by P.

Expect Amtrak to load all station costs Indy and north onto the Cardinal's subsidy, which Amtrak has to in turn eat.

If Amtrak does not cut/add a coach at Indy, LD revenue from the 3 Chicago coaches on the Cardinal will be partially eaten by local Indy-Chicago traffic. Or perhaps they will yield manage those seats off the train, as they tend to do, or used to with the Crescent between Washington and Charlottesville.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/15 10:30 by joemvcnj.

Under new rules that the FRA is testing with Indiana, all states that support passenger rail services would be considered railroad carriers. This burdensome interpretation exposes states to significant increases in cost, paperwork and liability, including:

• Liability for the actions of passenger rail providers up to $200 million for each occurrence of injury, death or property damage,
• Hiring new staff to monitor plans and programs in compliance with federal rules, and
• Interpretation that state employees are rail employees, subject to retirement and employer liability rules and limits.


Wow. How many state supported trains will the FRA kill off with these new rules. Unbelievable.

Edit
Question for eee who frequents this board. Do you agree with my interpretation of these "New Rules the FRA is testing" that even if INDOT excluded Iowa Pacific and dealt exclusively with Amtrak just to maintain the status quo, these new rules making INDOT a railroad will still apply. And if they can make it stick against INDOT on this one 4 day a week train, they'll establish their precedence and be able to apply to EVERY state with state sponsored trains.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/15 10:49 by scraphauler.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Expect Amtrak to load all station costs Indy and
> north onto the Cardinal's subsidy, which Amtrak
> has to in turn eat.
>
(snip)

good observation

Amtrak has a lot of fixed costs like stations which are distributed over however many trains use a facility.

The company also has a lot of DC-based overhead costs like executive, law department, HR, etc which don't change as trains are added or subtracted. And regional costs like commissary operations which function whether they serve one or two trains, or many trains. Still need rent, light, heat, etc.

Sorry, late to the party here, who was the private company looking into operating the service?

The solution is to make the Cardinal daily. Are there any politicians that are willing to hold Amtrak hostage to achieve that?

INDOT was looking for a reason to terminate this service. The FRA guidelines are simply convenient to use. So be careful who gets assessed the blame, I think there's plenty to go around, including the soon to be former carrier.

At the end of the day, agencies like the FRA whether we judge them positively or not, are in the regulation business.

Including states opens up whole new avenues of business for them. You need new business.

Bob

Sorry, but that is absolutely not correct. INDOT is working very hard to preserve this service, and I can assure you a lot of lawyer time has been spent trying to get FRA to back down from this.

And there is no FRA guideline. There was no "Notice of Proposed Rulemaking." There was no comment period. There was no record of decision on the question of whether FRA can require a state to be a railroad.

PC1974 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> INDOT was looking for a reason to terminate this
> service. The FRA guidelines are simply convenient
> to use. So be careful who gets assessed the
> blame, I think there's plenty to go around,
> including the soon to be former carrier.

NYSW1904 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, late to the party here, who was the private
> company looking into operating the service?

=============================================

First was Corridor Capital. They dropped out (or WERE dropped by INDOT).

Then the second, Iowa Pacific Holdings.

From a conversation with a principal in Corridor Capital, and an
E-mail exchange with a principal in Iowa Pacific, they both ran
afoul of the same issue with the FRA. Iowa Pacific does
say that Amtrak pushed with them at the FRA, too...but to no avail.
So the ruling may apply to Amtrak, too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/15 11:07 by GenePoon.

eee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, but that is absolutely not correct. INDOT
> is working very hard to preserve this service, and
> I can assure you a lot of lawyer time has been
> spent trying to get FRA to back down from this.
>

I'm on a regional logistics council that deals closely with INDOT, and while I have no dealings on the passenger side, I can say that everyone I've dealt with at INDOT seemed genuinely committed to trying to make the Hoosier State a success. So at least at the people in the trenches level, doesn't seem like anyone was rooting for failure.

eee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, but that is absolutely not correct. INDOT
> is working very hard to preserve this service, and
> I can assure you a lot of lawyer time has been
> spent trying to get FRA to back down from this.
>
> And there is no FRA guideline. There was no
> "Notice of Proposed Rulemaking." There was no
> comment period. There was no record of decision
> on the question of whether FRA can require a state
> to be a railroad.

This is going to have some, let's say interesting unintended consequences. Indiana does not own track (at least to my knowledge). Owning track used to be the deciding factor if an organization was a railroad.

There was some consternation and disbelief at Sound Transit when they became a railroad by buying some track (Tacoma - Nisqually, both in WA) from BNSF. Before that, they were a public agency purchasing service from BNSF. It took a lot of convincing and corroboration from a lawyer to convince them that yes, they are a railroad now. The service is still purchased, but they own track.

This ruling basically says that any agency purchasing rail service is a railroad. That would be not only all of the states providing rail service, but also commuter agencies that purchase commuter service on tracks they do not own. It means not only FRA is in the game, but also RRB and FELA.

If a freight customer contracts for a dedicated train service, would it be a railroad, or are trackless railroads only in the public sector?

There could be some interesting legal artillery battles going on in the near future. Hopefully, we will not see more agencies kill the services they provide as a result.

TAW

No, a daily Cardinal is not an answer.
It is too expensive to add the train miles.
It cannot make a reliable same night turn in Sunnyside
It does not provide reliable service between Indy and Chicago.
It does not go to Beech Grove.

The next shoe to drop in a month or two is Amtrak making noises about moving The Shops out to Illinois or Michigan.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, a daily Cardinal is not an answer.
> It is too expensive to add the train miles.
> It cannot make a reliable same night turn in
> Sunnyside
> It does not provide reliable service between Indy
> and Chicago.
> It does not go to Beech Grove.
>
> The next shoe to drop in a month or two is Amtrak
> making noises about moving The Shops out to
> Illinois or Michigan.

That would stand to reason if Amtrak cannot simply tack on its hospital moves to the Cardinal.

EEE Quote: "Sorry, but that is absolutely not correct."

Will see how it plays in the end. I think my comments are on track. Been watching the end game develop in Indiana for many years now. The lack of infrastructure and operating issues alone have pulled the service down. Then look at the service that has been provided. A coach car and bottle of water and away we go for a ride on the hospital train.

Amtrak's own data from 2011 showed that food service on the train was a bust. Would you be surprised to learn that more than once the train was met by an ambulance when a diabetic passenger was not prepared for the 5+ (sometimes many +++) hours trip and became ill?? A 5+ hour trip that could never be reduced to compete with cars, no direct routing option into Chicago.

Remember when CC was selected to provide the service. Re-route over the IC to improve the OTP. INDOT and Amtrak were going to make that happen... Right? Dead on arrival! Go back and read the INDOT RFP. Why? No significant investment in the service has been made. PERIOD.

Throw in the fact that the train was not on the Amtrak radar until it was almost gone and then Indiana gets WIFI and doughnuts for a couple of months... Why on the radar, cause Amtrak stood to loose the contract. I don't remember them playing fair with you on the ski train. Do you really things have changed?

And there's INDOT. Train was never supported by the state. Stood by all these years playing Pilate. Why would they step up to the plate now. I think they have been pretty clear as to what they think of this train.

This service actually died when the SC&S branch was allowed to abandoned and a direct connection to downtown Chicago was lost. The rigormortis could only go on so long as this is not truly a short haul corridor. RIP Hoosier State.

Some of the scariest words in the English language......" Hi, I'm with the Federal Government and I'm here to help you"......RUN don't walk away !!!!

Sad but true. Ross Rowland